Forums Splitboard Talk Forum What are you wacky hardbooters running for angles?
Viewing 18 posts - 1 through 18 (of 18 total)
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  • #567310
    Spencer
    128 Posts

    A quick survey;

    Please describe your set-up and tell me what are you using for stance angles and widths?

    Thanks, Spencer

    #585148
    Zach
    127 Posts

    It’s different on every board…

    I set my bindings so that on my front foot, the heel and toe of my boot are juuuust over the edgees of the board. Then I dial my rear foot back by 5 or 7 degrees, depending on the conditions. I also tend to tighten up my stance width and center my stance, if I expect corn or hard/wind pack.

    On my solid boards, I use Bomber, Trench Digger 2s; with 3 degree cant disks both oriented to slant directly to the center of the board. Bomber is also working with me to create a pair of ultra-light bindings that are basically just the heel block and toe block mounted directly to a board. They will have cant and lift built into them, and they will fit a custom insert pattern on a superlight Donek that I’m having made…. this will be my mountaineering set-up… lighter than Dynafits!

    On split boards, I use the Bomber Splitboard Bindings, and I have a pair of custom-milled cant shims that mtnrider made for me, based on the compound angle that my TD2s create… I will probably need a new pair soon, as I am getting a skinnier splitboard.

    Disclosure – I’m sponsored by Bomber…. but, if I had to pay for it, I’d still use their bindings.

    #585149
    Jon Dahl
    384 Posts

    On the split, 38/30 w/Voile cant shims, ’cause I’m using a split kit. 19.5 inch stance width. I may change it after some riding to higher, but that requires some more drilling. On a F2 Breezer solid, 50/45 w/cant and heel/toe lift. Am finding out I like it better than the shallower angles I was running on it. Race stick gets really steep angles, 60/55 w/Bomber TD2’s, 3 degree heal& toe lift. Will most likely shift to those bindings exclusively after this season. Split will get Bombers, too, but not Intec stepins. I do a fair amount of hiking and the pins tend to get roughed up in anything other than snow.

    #585150
    Randy S.
    1 Posts

    There’s a good article from Bomber’s site HERE.

    I’m just considering a split board, but on my normal boards I run 60/55 with about a 19-19.5″ stance width. Most of my boards have an 18cm waist.

    #585151
    ttriche
    116 Posts

    I’ve settled into angles of 40 front, 22 back; if I could get an extra 2-4 degrees in the front, I would do so, but so far no joy. It’s good to be back in hard boots on a stiff board — I am riding Garmont Dynamites with Mtn Plates on a Mtn Gun 161, and loving the quick response (3-4′ wide S-turns!).

    Now I remember why I liked my carving boards so much. Pluss the overall setup is several pounds lighter than my old PMB+Flows+4807 setup. Whee.

    #585152
    Bodynazi
    17 Posts

    I first set up the ’71 gun w/ 45/35 angles – and it was crazy different than my ‘in bounds’ set up of 15/0. I did an area day to see if I could get used to the steeper angles. I didn’t. I got thrashed like a red-headed step child on bump runs and I was not confident ripping it up in the trees.

    Some of the BC runs I do require that I make pretty quick turns (chutes, trees) – and I was not comfortable w/ the steep angles doing such – so I now have them at 18/3 and I like it a ton better as it’s more similar to the ‘traditional’ set up. (pause here for other hard boot riders to laugh).

    #585153
    Zach
    127 Posts

    Bodynazi,

    For many people, 1 day is not enough to make the transition to steeper angles… especially, if there is nobody around to teach you the basics of this totally different technique.

    before you give up the steeper angles, try some of the techniques here: http://www.bomberonline.com/articles/welcome_center.cfm
    To truly get the full benefit out of your hard boots, I think you’ll need to give it a shot.

    On another topic:
    My good buddy Jef, who has some of the smoothest style I’ve ever seen, and has been swearing by soft boots and low angles for years, bought a pair of AT boots and set up his Burton split with Voile Mtn. Plates… He loved it…
    Bomber’s sales numbers on plate, splitboard bindings have at least doubled this year…. Seems like more and more people are trying it.

    And, yet another topic:
    I rode in BOOOOOOOTTTTTOMLESS powder this morning… lighter and dryer than anything I’ve ever been in… And, I did it on a skinny (23.5cm waist) board with AT boots and plate bindings… tons of fun.

    Zach

    #585154
    ttriche
    116 Posts

    Hey Zach,

    where can a person get cant/lift shims for a Voile-specific insert pattern? Or do you have them made custom? I would love to set up my front foot canted at about 3 degrees back, to move my center of gravity a bit back and take some stress off my knees. Part of my motivation for going with the Dynamites is that they are short enough not to hurt when touring and light enough not to cancel out the benefits of going with the Plates, but stiff enough laterally to drive a powder ski. I do worry about trashing my knee(s) in a panic turn with them, though, due to this lateral stiffness. Canting would help… a lot.

    On a related note, has anyone with a Mtn Gun got their front binding angle up to 42-44 degrees? I’d really like to steepen up a bit, but I can’t seem to make the Universal pucks do it. I would never go back to the mount-remount-remount process of a homemade split, but I’m curious how I can get a steep enough front angle for my tastes.

    Even with my Nuptses I ran 40/20… with the hard boots I am now casting about for a more “neutral” feeling stance where I don’t tend to over-counterrotate, and about 22 degrees seems to do it for me. I do still feel some pressure on my forward knee at 40 degrees, so I’m seeking a cant (for the joint angle, when I lean back) and some steepening (for a more neutral stance in general). I know that my rear angle is relatively shallow, but the Gun is not a carving board, and even at 22 degrees I still get maybe 1cm of toe overhang, tops, in the back.

    Curious about the Dynafit toepiece mod, too… might be the only way to get a 45 degree front angle… but then where would I mount the crampons?

    #585155
    mtnrider
    740 Posts

    @zach wrote:

    And, yet another topic:
    I rode in BOOOOOOOTTTTTOMLESS powder this morning… lighter and dryer than anything I’ve ever been in… And, I did it on a skinny (23.5cm waist) board with AT boots and plate bindings… tons of fun.

    Zach

    oh man, I hope you blasted a turn for us workin’ folk….

    #585156
    bcboarderwa
    38 Posts

    I’ve changed my angles back to 20 back, 30 front, after an ill-fated experiment in trying 0 back, 10 front. The last trip was much more enjoyable 8)
    I was riding my resort board at a similar 25-35 angle before due to toe/heel drag, so I had some time to get used to it before I started splitboarding.

    #585157
    Zach
    127 Posts

    @ttriche wrote:

    Hey Zach,

    where can a person get cant/lift shims for a Voile-specific insert pattern? Or do you have them made custom? I would love to set up my front foot canted at about 3 degrees back, to move my center of gravity a bit back and take some stress off my knees. Part of my motivation for going with the Dynamites is that they are short enough not to hurt when touring and light enough not to cancel out the benefits of going with the Plates, but stiff enough laterally to drive a powder ski. I do worry about trashing my knee(s) in a panic turn with them, though, due to this lateral stiffness. Canting would help… a lot.

    There, unfortunately aren’t any in production… What I did was to set up my TD2s (Bomber plate bindings) on top of my splitboard, without attempting to mount them to the board… just setting up angles. I then took the angles, cant degrees, and cant orientation and plugged them into a spreadsheet that you can download off of Bomber’s website.

    I took the resulting compound angle to a friend of mine who works in a prototyping shop, and he milled canting shims for me…. If you don’t have any way of calculating as precisely as I did, you could probably figure on canting by 3 degrees, towards the center of the board, on both feet… then, adding 1 degree of lift to your front toe and 1 degree of lift to your reer heel. This is a very standard set-up and will work fine for 95% of backcountry conditions… cant and lift need to become more precise, when you’re carving a lot of piste or hardpack.

    Take those dimensions to a machine shop, and you should be able to explain to them what you need. It’s best to just make the shims, then drill holes afterwards.

    Zach

    #585158
    bcboarderwa
    38 Posts

    I tried making my own wooden shims. Needless to say, it didn’t work. 🙄 Although I did see pics of someone who did this successfully. I think they had a good saw jig, and put a few coats of laquer over the drilled shims to keep the water out. Getting them machined out of plastic is a much better way to go.

    I went with softer dynafit tlt boots, and the knee strain and need for shims went away.

    #585159
    Bodynazi
    17 Posts

    thanks for the link Zach. I can see that style making sense on groomers, but I’m still missing something @ the whole carving deal in the BC (at least anything other than casual wide open runs). Running steep couloirs where you have to make v. fast & precise turns doesn’t seem condusive to v. steep angles & ‘carving’. Again, obviously I’m less than a novice at it. I’ll have to do another area day on groomers sometime.

    #585160
    Zach
    127 Posts

    @bodynazi wrote:

    thanks for the link Zach. I can see that style making sense on groomers, but I’m still missing something @ the whole carving deal in the BC (at least anything other than casual wide open runs). Running steep couloirs where you have to make v. fast & precise turns doesn’t seem condusive to v. steep angles & ‘carving’. Again, obviously I’m less than a novice at it. I’ll have to do another area day on groomers sometime.

    Oh, I agree 100%… in tighter, steeper terrain; you can’t really lay trenches. Learning how to carve though (keep in mind, I’m not that good at it), helps to show you how to utilize steeper angles and different parts of yout boots.

    In steeper, tighter terrain I still “carve” my turns…. I just don’t do huge radius turns. I tend to lift the board up and around, from my hips, sinking the edge in about halfway through the normal turn radius…. of course, I also sometimes just skid for life 😆

    I also had the advantage of advantage of a lot of phone time with Fin at Bomber and some slope time with Pete Santenello (2nd at Verbier in hard boots), when I first made the switch.

    Zach

    #585161
    ttriche
    116 Posts

    Biggest advantage of hard boots is complete control and the ability to whip the board around almost without thinking about it. “Hey, this turn is taking me on a collision course with a bunch of trees that looked sparser than they are… time to change course”… on a steep slope or in powder this can be strenuous turning with your feet and toes and leaning, but with hardboots I find that simply bending my knees more and turning my hips does the trick.

    Needless to say, I am of the opinion that turning one’s hips is less strenuous than shifting one’s entire body position through the feet. But, YMMV. I couldn’t care less about carving nowadays — I just want maximum control. I will be even more stoked when I get the cant/lift of my bindings dialed in! Thanks for the tips Zach.

    #585162
    Zach
    127 Posts

    Quote from a die-hard soft-booter, today, his second day on hard boots, in deeeeeeeeeeppppppp powder:

    “Holy Crap! I can’t believe I didn’t do this sooner”

    😀

    #585163
    Spencer
    128 Posts

    I am completely enamoured with the idea of bc riding in hardboots. The competent hiking, the easier binding entry, the weight savings, the edging power…sigh!

    But it seems that the higher angles are more akin to skiing (which I have mostly renounced) and the lower angles must be tough on the knees even with canting. Woe is me.

    And I like to carve. I can put down the same thin arcs as hardbooters.But at maybe half their speed of course.

    Unfortunately, i think hardboots arre not in my future. I’m thinking of Hillman’s highway which is always bumped up and almost always crowded and the Gulf of Slides ski trail which has few sections 10 -12 feet in width. Neithe r of which seem conducive to the hardboot style. Not saying it isn’t done but that I don’t have the time or inclination to relearn that much.

    Thanks all and good riding!

    #585164
    Jon Dahl
    384 Posts

    @zach wrote:

    Quote from a die-hard soft-booter, today, his second day on hard boots, in deeeeeeeeeeppppppp powder:

    “Holy Crap! I can’t believe I didn’t do this sooner”

    😀

    I said the same thing about my newly purchased swallowtail a week and a half ago, using my hardboots, of course! Rats, I promised not to split it! Might be breaking that one!

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