Forums DIY and Mods Voile conversion didn’t take… Ripped out bindings
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  • #567531
    boardergirl
    85 Posts

    Hey All,

    I just emailed Jack for some ideas and thought I’d stick it on here too. We didn’t have much luck with the Voile conversion kit. Love the setup but not very happy with the ripped out bindings. Anyway, here’s my email. If anyone els has any input, I’d love to hear it. I’ll stick some pics on if I can figure it out!

    Jack,
    Just wondering how your self-manufactured pucks have held up? Did you end up using UHMD (polycarb?) My husband and I decided to just go with the Voile suggestions and drill everything out. We followed their directions to the “T” and were pretty happy with the results. Unfortunately, the pucks were only held in with some wood screws. We found out this weekend that wood screws aren’t enough. Eric took a sharp transition which threw him over the front of his board and both bindings ripped completly out of his board. After the initial shock and laughter, we were pretty bummed. Now we’re trying to manufacture our own pucks so we can use the Burton inserts. We have already cut out the pucks and are just getting to the drilling of the hole pattern. Eric is pretty worried about stress fractures where the pucks are held down by the metal plates. We were just wondering what your experiences have been. Have you got many days on the new set up? Eric rode his board a total of 3 times after the Voile switch before he ripped out the screws. Hoping for some good news. We love the Voile setup, but we’re pretty burnt up about the ripped topsheet. Anyway, thanks for any insights and for the great ideas.

    Boardergirl

    #586878
    bigboater
    29 Posts

    I’ve had about 5 long days on my manufactured pucks and they are showing no sign of wear. It was also in the negative degrees two of the days. I think the plastic I used was policarbonate but I’m not sure. It is clear and rigid, but not overly rigid. Sort of like a slightly softer plexi-glass. I was told that it is not very UV resistant, but I figure as long as I store the board in side its all good. All I used to make the pucks was a table saw by sinking the blade down so just a little bit of the blade is sticking up. FYI, if I had it to do over again (and I may) I would cut the pucks a little big at first and then just shave more off as needed. I also used a saw blade with lots of teeth as apposed to a blade used for rougher cuts. Hope this helps.

    #586879
    ssattler
    77 Posts

    how did you drill and prep your screw holes for the bindings?

    may be salvagable if you placed some of those expandable plugs in the holes…ski shops have them.

    maybe someone with some shop experience could help you on this.

    #586880
    boardergirl
    85 Posts

    We actually had a good friend/ski tech. from our local shop help us with the whole process. We pre-drilled the screw holes and filled them with epoxy. We actually been thinking about trying the expandable plugs, but as you can see from the pics, the holes are blown out really bad. The top sheet is puckered really bad, and a ton of wood got ripped out too. We thought we’d try to use the Burton inserts since they’re probably a little stronger than trying to use the ripped out holes. I guess our last resort would be to majorly swiss cheese the base and put some T-nuts in. Don’t really want to do that! 😥

    #586881
    utahgirl
    28 Posts

    Crap, I’m so sorry that happened to you. Your stance looks pretty normal, are you sure you can’t get the pucks to fit on the burton inserts? Are you using the universal pucks? With the universal pucks I was able to get a few different stances on the predrilled inserts by swiveling the the inner circle. Check out dishwasher dave’s and jimw’s post at the end of ‘burton boards’ under ‘reviews’. I promise to get my pics on there soon- once I get my act together.

    #586882
    Jon Dahl
    384 Posts

    It looks like you used the Voile split kit. You will need to repair as much of the topsheet damage as you can with epoxy and clamps, then drill out your screw holes again. This time, though, drill 2 or 3 of them all the way through and countersink them through the base for inserts. 1/4″ threaded inserts are available from Voile or your local hardware store, get stainless ones. This is a project I’m in the middle of right now. You will also need to slightly drill out the pucks for the new screws too. Then rob an old ski of p-tex and fill the holes up, grind the base and go ride. Or get the pucks that the factory boards use (they are different) and do as some of the others have already done.

    #586883
    jack
    323 Posts

    Hey Boardergirl, got your email, but I figured I would just reply here. Anyway, that’s a bummer! Looks like the board is definitely salvageable though.

    As for my setup, I only have about 5 days on my setup, but I have sort of tried to thrash it from the get go, as to be sure it would not fail later on during a more committed trip. So far it has held up great. As for the type of plastic I used, it’s a total mystery, its strait from the scrap bin of the hardware store. Originally I used UHMWPE (Ultra High Molecular Weight Polyethylene) but those blocks I cut weren’t very square, so I never mounted or tested them. It looks like Bigboater used Polycarbonate or maybe it’s an Acrylic, and it seems like that is pretty solid. Also, the sb.com user Burton suggested I use POM (Polyoximethylen), as that is what he used during his similar project. In general, I would say that the material doesn’t matter much as long as it’s not a low density or commodity plastic. The force it would take to have 6 or 8 bolt heads to shear though about .15â€Â

    #586884
    Cebolla
    6 Posts

    Sorry to hear about the board.

    My friends and I all ride boards we split ourselves. The ones we are riding now have lasted several years with lots of use/climbs in the Pacific Northwest. My board feels strong and I trust it with my life.

    I learned the lesson you are learning the easy way. Before I split the board I ride now, in 2002, my friend set up a Rossignol with the V-kit and yes he used the woodscrews with epoxy. He pre-drilled just enough to make it really strong and it was fine for a few tours.

    Push came to shove when he took a drop that was bigger than expected and tore his bindings off. The best part was that HE RODE IT OUT, like he was on a skateboard, unattached. It was heroic, and definately a design flaw. He stomped it. So we all got smart and T-bolted everything.

    If your good, you can countersink the t-bolt, cover with a bit of epoxy and buff it out. Really, who cares about aethetics here? Then you will never be worried. I know my binders will never come off. Speed has never been an issue either.

    My friend just fixed his top-sheet (as was mentioned above in another post) and drilled through the board to apply the t-bolts and that was it. He’s still riding the board and it took 2 hours to fix the whole thing. He rode it the next day.

    That’s my 2 cents. Keep it strong and it will last a long time. T-bolts!

    #586885
    boardergirl
    85 Posts

    Hey Guys…

    Thanks for all of the responses and ideas. We actually thought of most of the things that you all suggested. (Great minds think alike!) We may end up getting the Voile universal pucks since that seems like about the best option (thanks u-girl!). We have a long weekend starting tomorrow and don’t want to be sitting at home waiting for pucks to arrive… so we’re trying to build our own for now. Also thought about drilling out the pucks that came with the conversion kit, but with the hollow area in the back, we’re pretty sure that bolts will rip through. Also, the bolts need to be countersunk and that doesn’t leave much material between bolt and board.
    Eric already has 5 holes in each ski from T-bolting the touring bracket and risers on, so the T-nut idea is our last resort. That might have to happen if this little project doesn’t work.
    Jack, we used your ideas on making our own puck. Used a router and it worked great. New pucks fit almost perfect! Last night we spent the night cutting out all the little “volcano holes” in the topsheet where the screws pulled out. Filled everything with epoxy to hopefully keep it from getting water damage. Tonight’s project is drilling out the new pucks with the burton hole pattern. We pretty much have to get that right the first try or we’re screwed! Only have one set of pucks machined out!
    I think someone suggested doing a pencil rubbing to get the hole pattern right. Is that the best approach?
    Anyway, thanks again for all the suggestions. Hopefully we’ll get it all back together in time for a nice long weekend in the pow. I’ll let you all know how it works out.

    #586886
    SanFrantastico
    1514 Posts

    Hey boardergirl,

    Jack made a PDF of the Burton hole pattern which you can find here. (Correct me if I’m wrong about that hole pattern, Jack.) Anyway, he recommended double-checking the measurements, but I think that will help you drill the holes correctly in your new pucks.

    Putting the poo in swimming pool since 1968.

    #586887
    jack
    323 Posts

    hey SanFran, that pdf is for the touring stuff. actually, i could probably make a template of the puck mounting holes. i’ll try to find that stuff this afternoon.

    #586888
    SanFrantastico
    1514 Posts

    Cool, Jack. If you get it together, email it to me and I’ll host it.

    Putting the poo in swimming pool since 1968.

    #586889
    bigboater
    29 Posts

    The pencil rubbing worked for me, but the hard part is positioning the rubbing on the right spot on the pucks. The holes will be perfect with proximity to each other, but the pucks may not end up in the right spot on the board. I spent a lot of time checking and re-checking before I drilled. If the pucks are clear this is actually a lot easier. If the holes don’t end up right you may be able to make them bigger and countersink a washer.

    I agree, I don’t think there is enough plastic on the stock pucks to counter sink the screw.

    If it all goes well and you have good plastic, you may find that your home made puck are a lot stronger than the one’s you ordered. You just can’t change the angle. I couldn’t be happier with mine.

    #586890
    matti
    1 Posts

    I have made my first split (an old Burton Canyon) with the Voile Split kit .
    I have done some testing on resorts and some short hikes with no problems.
    Maybe it would be an idea to but some T-nuts on the pucks before they ripp out .

    Do you think i have to put T-nuts on all 16 screws or will it be enough with T-nuts under the toe and heel ?

    #586891
    ssattler
    77 Posts

    catch me up on this thread…

    why are you guys making pucks?

    true DYI style?

    am i missing something?

    scott

    #586892
    jimw
    1421 Posts

    They are trying to use the factory inserts on the Burton board to avoid the original problem where the pucks were attached with wood screws, and stripped out. To use the factory inserts, you either have to drill new holes in the DIY pucks (sounds like a no-go because the DIY pucks are milled out underneath), use the universal pucks that come on Voile factory splits which you can order individually from Voile (if you can get the stance position/angle you want), or make your own pucks.

    Another option is to use the DIY pucks, but try to position them so that at least one screw hole is over an insert. That would be better than using all wood screws. I think bcd had a post on this a while back.

    #586893
    Jon Dahl
    384 Posts

    Hey matti, I would use 2 per puck (inserts) on the front pucks at least. The only time you risk pulling the ski screws is on a wipe out, and you risk some core damage also. Finding some ptex to fix all the holes when you are done is a good idea, but not necessary.

    #586894
    boardergirl
    85 Posts

    Alright Folks! Here it is… We finished our jerry rigged project and it actually turned out pretty good. Put 2 good, long days on the new pucks and they held up well. First ride on them was a small cliff drop to 45 degree chute, so they were broken in quickly. All seemed to go well.
    Now we’re just hoping they’ll hold up for the long haul.
    We did everything in our little wood shop with only a few tools. Jack’s access to every tool on the planet had me a little worried, but we faked our way through it with what we had… router, drills, clamps, table saw.
    The only problem we encountered was one that Jack warned me about. We shaved off just a fraction of an inch too much and there was some slop in the binding. Eric just epoxied a little more UHMW back on and now it fits like a glove. Sortof a ghetto fix it, but it worked. Anyway, here are some pics.

    The guys at our local shop told us to cut out the “volcano holes”. Pretty sad, huh? We filled everything with waterproof epoxy to prevent more damage.

    I lost my tail clip a couple of rides ago… even with locktite on the screws. So, since we were in the shop doing some jerry rigging, I thought I’d give it a go. This is also made out of scrap UHMW and the screws cost about $1.15 at Lowes. A pretty good deal and it seems to work well!

    Thanks again to everyone for the great ideas and input. May the powder be deep and the skies be bluebird! 😀

    #586895
    SanFrantastico
    1514 Posts

    I *love* the homemade tail clip. I think you have to call this board ‘Frankenstick.’

    Putting the poo in swimming pool since 1968.

    #586896
    jack
    323 Posts

    looks awsome boardergirl. good work.

    i was suprised by how close the tollerances needed to be, good idea on just glueing some more plastic on instead of starting over. my front binding is a little sloppy, but i dont notice it on the way down.

    that home-made tail clip is awsome too!

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