Toe/Heel Drag Allowance (hardboots and softies)

…or steeper angles.

Since boot overhang distance, boot toe and heel shape, and boot height off the board all contribute to edge-to-boot angle, edge-to-boot angle is the best measure to use.

I haven’t heard of the above 60* rule, but I will measure my set ups that do not exhibit boot-out problems and report those angles back soon.

Given a size 12 foot and just about a straight across back foot, this is an issue I’m constantly mindful of when configuring a set up, though usually I just eyeball it. I never go less than 27cm waist width on boards, but where width matters is underfoot, and underfoot board width is also affected by sidecut, taper, and stance width. It will be interesting to put some angle numbers to it.

I have Fitwells size 300 and went for boards with 270-275mm waist to avoid toe drag.
Every mm less leads to crashes due to toe drags, when carving on a hard surface.
(and could be seriously dangerous in a steep wall or couloir)

@Skijor AK wrote:

I am 6′ but only weigh 150 and have trouble jump turning the wide boards.

Jump turns make me think of an old Scott Schmidt ski movie. Eat a few sandwiches and muscle that thing around! 😆

I’ve been moving toward wider boards for the last few years to avoid the dreaded toe drag(sz 13’s). Wider boards will be a little more cumbersome yet provide a little more float. I would say step up to 26 to 26.5 at least. I’ve got a board for this year that has a 27 waist but I’m 6’1 and 200 lbs so I feel I have leverage on the wide waist. Wide boards open up more stance options…..blah blah :twocents: Any way enjoy the lines you guys are going after, peace.

So, to follow up, I measure between 62 – 70* on my set ups. Having eye-balled those angles, I much prefer 70. I notice the metal is scuffed on the binding heel cup that measured 62*, indicating some drag (grainy corn, probably). So, although I haven’t experienced boot-out, there is some drag on angulated heel turns at 62*. Therefore, I now consider 62* too little edge-boot angle.

Also, having looked at it, if I were riding a lot of hard snow, high-consequence steeps, I would take every precaution and push those angles up to 75* or so. Given that you’re explicitly targeting steep objectives, I suggest that your edge-boot angles of 54 – 62* may be a hazard. If I were you, I’d improve those angles. It’d also be good to hear from some of the mountaineering-focused riders on the forum (which I’m not).

One or more of these steps will increase edge-boot angle:

(1) increase your stance angle;
(2) get a wider board;
(3) get a boot with a shorter boot sole length (see this post: http://splitboard.com/talk/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=17325);
(4) bevel your boot toes and heels (at the cost of traction on hard snow and ice);
(5) elevate your boot and/or binding.

Hope that helps.
T

Fyi to new fitwell owners who run K’rams. I ride boards with a 25.2cm waist with 10.5(290) fitwells and the way the boot fits in the heelcups I had to go to a small heelcup on my old Superlights as to not have too much heel drag (it’s perfect with smalls as the width of the binding is really the same so no need to worry about room for the boot). However, I just bought new medium K’ram Primes and am having the same issue with medium heelcups. I have a 55 degree heel hang at maximum adjustment (on back foot at -3). I measured and am considering just slicing the back of my sole to make it 65 degrees as I was thinking this should be good even on super steep high consequence stuff and it won’t compromise my boot integrity or I might just get some small heelcups. I’m not sure what to do cuz I want to ride my new binders but I hate that they don’t fit my boots.

I also have a pair of K2 T1’s and these don’t work at all with K’rams. The way that boot is shaped I have tons of heel drag with K’ram heelcups that can’t be fixed even slicing deep into the boot. I’m the only person I know of who’s had this problem. I was wondering how much adjustment Spark magneto baseplates have as K’rams only allow for 5/16 of an inch play. I’d never consider running angles I wouldn’t run normally. That’s not acceptable. I feel for those with feet >10.5. Kind of a curse if you’re a snowboarder imo.

update: I just checked and I only have 62 degrees on my toe now so a smaller heelcup wouldn’t work. I’m gonna slice my heel. It’s funny, the new K’ram heel lock safety latch actually hits at 63 degrees without a boot in the binding. I might take it off as it gives me an extra 5 degrees of play without it. I guess the last 2 years I must have been riding with only 60 degrees (or less) on my back toe and I rode plenty of steeps and encountered no problems so I’d venture to guess that 60 degrees is totally safe for the steepest of gnar. If Jones would make his boards 4 millimeters wider and I wouldn’t have any issues with 290 fitwells!

Jesus, I’ve never geeked out on heel/toe drag so much!!! 😆