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  • #604278
    Mumbles
    Participant

    mtman, (love the “hittin’ it hippo). I think the part on the boot is the binding which remains attached, not some part that is fitted to the boot sole itself. I could be wrong though.

    I’m a fan of the innovation and perhaps through the wealth of insight, experience and constructive criticism it may well end up contributing an option or two.

    I’m an optomist at heart, more options are more places to start a perfect DIY MOD to suit everyone’s specific setup needs.

    I’m personally working on a combination of my volie and burton systems to use the benefits of both. Simple solid volie system with added burton crampon which, in my opinion, is better than the remove the pin while on a sketchy side hill than the volie. I’m not doing it to sell, just to use. I’m not up on patent laws and don’t have cash to fund such a fight. Just tweaking things to suit my preferences. You splitboard creatures rock.

    #604279
    Unruly Baker
    Participant

    @Snowjunkie wrote:

    Unruly baker check you email on this site

    Checked…………….nada, zip, zilch, zero.

    UB

    #604280
    Shep
    Participant

    I’ve been holding off commenting on this, but I think one of the classes I’m taking this semester has some really appropriate info. It’s a B-School class called “New Venture Creation”, and the primary thesis of the whole class is: To get business, you have to address market pain. Beyond that, there is a lot of buying momentum, and if you are only addressing a small pain, no one will notice. You have to address a huge, burning, white-hot pain, to get people to seek out your product.

    Now, I don’t know how Will knew that lots of people didn’t like their binding setup, but he did. In fact, he developed his market perfectly. He found out what people didn’t like about current splits. Then, he built a prototype, and he let people use it. They knew it was only a proto, and it was bit clunky, but people saw how much potential it had, and it did solve their pain of having annoyingly complicated/heavy binding setups w/o making them go to hard boots. Then, he developed a second prototype, and sent that to the BC Mag board test, and it got a mention in the magazine. Finally, he used this board to line up his first round of customers.

    That, folks, would have earned him an A+ in this class I am taking, cause that’s how its got to be done to make a go of a new business.

    On the other hand, myself and some other people are interested in other options for splitboard bindings, like dynafit toepieces and hardboots. But the key point is this… We have to build this stuff for ourselves, by ourselves, and realize we’re not going to sell it to anyone. And if we DO want to sell it to someone, we’re going to have to build prototypes, get them out there, and get feedback on what the product should be to address the market pain.

    /Soapbox mode off

    Shep

    #604281
    lewmt
    Participant

    You have to address a huge, burning, white-hot pain, to get people to seek out your product

    Like heel lock-downs 8)

    #604282
    Snowjunkie
    Participant

    @lewmt wrote:

    You have to address a huge, burning, white-hot pain, to get people to seek out your product

    Like heel lock-downs 8)

    I have been thinking about lock down for a wile and I have a Q for the readers. Do they need to be as solid as AT gear? For example do they need to be fully adjustable with a din setting of 12, or can they be unadjustable with three different strength models? The binding I show above uses a climbing bar for a NNN but there is no reason this couldn’t be replaced with a Dynafit too interface. The problem I face is that a heel look tends to interfere with the back snowboard binding. There generally isn’t enough room to put all that stuff between you feet and still be able to move your bindings back on those pow days. Plus a Dynafit heel piece is still pretty heavy.

    So on the burning white-hot pain question. If there was a new system that was just as reliable as Voile, as light as the Sparks, could release from ski mode and snowboard mode with pole tips, could engage into ski mode and snowboard mode with the same ease as an AT skier stepping into there bindings would you want it?

    #604283
    Ecobrad
    Participant

    So on the burning white-hot pain question. If there was a new system that was just as reliable AND FOR ABOUT THE SAME PRICE as Voile, as light as the Spark BINDINGS, could release from ski mode and snowboard mode with pole tips, NOT ICE UP LIKE BURTON, could engage into ski mode and snowboard mode with the same ease as an AT skier stepping into there bindings would you want it?

    YES

    #604284
    Shep
    Participant

    I think the problem is we’ve already decided to be less efficient than AT skiers. No matter what, we’ve got to take our board apart or put it back together, and put our poles away, or take them out. If that process is more efficient, thats a good thing, but unless the board has superconducting electromagnets to hold itself together, and your poles fold up and stow in the forearms of your jacket, we’ll always be slower.

    I think most people focused on the request for investment, and I suspect that is not really what you are focusing on at this point. You clearly have access to good solid modeling software, and I bet if you ask around, you can find a machine shop with a bored machinist that would be interested in helping you out. Better, if you are a student, I bet your college or university has a CNC machine somewhere… Starting asking around. If you buy the material, I bet you can make a prototype.

    My point is, at this point, you’ve got a lot of people thinking about your product, which is a good thing. Build a prototype. Figure out what works well, and what doesn’t. Then, you’ve got a good case for investment. But, the best way to launch a manufacturing business is to bootstrap it. (i.e. put the money up yourself). Again, I hope Will doesn’t mind me using him as an example, but he did a good job of using his own money, and perhaps he got loans on his machining and finishing tools (they make great collateral), but I’m guessing he didn’t go out and get an “angel” investor to front him 20 grand for prototypes.

    Thanks,
    Shep

    #604285
    Mumbles
    Participant

    I’m not as to the point as EcoBrad who says yes, if it does all those things he is interested. Nor am I as eloquent as Shep with his very good point about getting going and already having conversation about your ideas. I know that there are a lot of possible pitfalls in your project.

    My meager input, should it be considered is this. If it works or can be tweaked to work then I’m interested. My other comment is this: I do not want anything underfoot that is not a snowboard assembled, splitboard skinning, vert for climbing or crampon for sketchy terrain. I do not think there is really much personal interest in something attached to the bottom of my boot.

    Voile, Burton, Atomic, Spark, Yours and anyone else’s ideas will work for someone. It will take a solid idea to work across the board, which is what seems so impressive about Will’s Spark Ignitions. So far the only complaints have been about loctite, bolts needing replaced or crampons, each of which he has or will be addressing.

    #604286
    Shep
    Participant

    Sh**, someone thinks I’m eloquent? 😯 I’m not really sure how to feel about that. 😮

    #604287
    russman
    Participant

    @bcrider wrote:

    I don’t mean to rain on the parade or the work you’ve done either but I gotta admit that I really don’t understand the logic.

    As with the recent Atomic debacle I have a similar set of questions.

    Why redesign the interface? What are the problems with the existing interface that warrant a totally new design? What specific features and benefits does your design present over the current offering?

    The Voile system is extremely simple and effective, thats the beauty of it.

    From a mfg pov there is very little tooling needed and the pieces are easy to produce. In your design I count around 50 rivets per binding! Have you thought about production costs for something like that or a suggested retail price? I don’t see how this design could compete with the very affordable price for the Voile system.

    As for performance. The sport just took a step forward with the Spark bindings because the overall height of the system was lowered. This looks like you’ve gone back to a pretty elevated system.

    I don’t think the current product is holding the sport back at this point. Instead of a company trying to reinvent the wheel what we really need is a company to focus on promoting the sport by spending money on splitboard riders and marketing, not research and development.

    my .02

    Thanks again for sharing and good luck either way! 8)

    This is the beauty of a peer review. I am proposing my thesis to a panel of colleagues in a month, and its in the critical breakdown of ideas that creates the best study! So good work bcrider!

    I would argue however, that there does need to need be further research and development on boot design (it shouldn’t ALL go to marketing). As discussed in the Mountaineering thread, most soft snowboard boots don’t even allow for kicking steps in hard stuff without smashing the crap out of your toes! I would also like to see a boot that can take a crampon super well. That needs to happen…..for sure….

    #604288
    uriedog
    Participant

    I think its a great Idea. keep going

    #604289
    bcrider
    Participant

    @russman wrote:

    I would argue however, that there does need to need be further research and development on boot design (it shouldn’t ALL go to marketing). As discussed in the Mountaineering thread, most soft snowboard boots don’t even allow for kicking steps in hard stuff without smashing the crap out of your toes! I would also like to see a boot that can take a crampon super well. That needs to happen…..for sure….

    While I don’t disagree the next big step in splitboarding could be to improve our boots I don’t think its as large of an issue as some folks make it out to be. I’ve never thought to myself, “damn…my boots are really holding me back”. So much has been done with regular snowboard boots from pros to everyday riders alike. People climb burly shit all the time in snowboard boots.

    Sure they could be improved but they don’t seem to be holding anyone or the sport back really.

    As for this topic, as far as I can tell its a binding/interface system not a boot. As I stated earlier in the thread, the initial design that was posted seems really complex and I don’t really see the value of keeping the bindings on your feet while you transition. I’m stoked to see it though and ultimately the market will decide it’s success not me. I just hope they dont pull an Atomic, i.e. designing a product without the firsthand support and input of the users.

    #604290
    karma surf
    Participant

    Praise (insert deity of choice) that we have the Voile interface. The “caveman” technology is what makes the thing so bombproof. K-I-S-S. Your design is way over-engineered: if you want the Voile system to work better for you, spend more time in the bc than in your office. The largest limitations I see in the bc with the Voile system is inexperience by the user, and I’ve splitted with hundreds of different peeps. Tranny time for a serious splitter is about a minute. Learn to ski the split, and you can hang with at’ers, tele hippies… whatever. It is not the interface or tool holding splitters back, it’s their lack of skill or fitness.

    During the 4 yrs I was at Voile, I saw numerous systems submitted to them, and as the bona-fide knuckle-dragger there, they always asked for my input. This idea, along with all the others (including Burton’s) looks good on paper, but would/did choke in the bc. Aluminum and metal = icing issues. Add moving parts, and you’re begging for even more. Stick shit on the soles of your boots (where me and many others are booting jagged scree- and you’re adding more weight to my boot!) and you’re really begging for trouble.

    I congratulate you on your efforts though, you’ve obviously spent some serious time in thought over this…

    Can the Voile interface be improved upon? Absolutely! Could a better interface be designed! Positively! But this is not the answer. The real innovation will only come from someone who has logged serious time on the current system. That is why the Spark bindings, and the new Voile bindings are vast improvements. They’ve been designed by real splitters with serious mileage under their feet.

    Best wishes to ya!

    #604291
    peacefrog
    Participant

    I’ve gotten to this late but for some reason I can’t see the pictures post in the 1st link on this thread

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