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  • #574259
    rughty
    Participant

    decided to move the thread here to the bindings section. Here is the link to the previous thread:
    http://splitboard.com/talk/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=9627

    So, here is the first rendition of the toe ramp/LT bracket adapter. Parts will be welded tomorrow. After using the crappy Voile touring bracket for the past year and since Spark R&D came out with the LT bracket for their Blaze binder setup, I decided to make the upgrade. A little time in the shop and I figured out a way to adapt my binder to use with the LT bracket.

    I welded together a hollow pin from stainless steel tubing. It is pretty close in weight to the aluminum pin that spark r&d uses with their LT bracket and will last way longer.


    Ride RFL’s strapped in. Toe straps removed to show clarity.

    One more pic to come after welding is complete and these Rughty’s are ready to ride! :thumpsup:

    #635306
    Chewbacca
    Participant

    BINDING – PORN

    Is all I can say….
    :drool:

    #635307
    samh
    Participant

    @rughty wrote:

    I welded together a hollow pin from stainless steel tubing.

    Does the steel tubing not bend well and hence the use of the square connector bit? This is a pretty righteous idea seeing as how you’ve reached a similar weight to the LT Pin with far greater resistance to wear.

    --
    samh.net

    #635308
    rughty
    Participant

    If you look at the first pic, you will see how tight of a bend I would need to make to rest on the baseplate like the Spark R&D pins do. Because I used tubing instead of a solid piece, I can’t bend it that much without putting a kink (weak spot) in the tubing. The square is hollow too so weight isn’t affected by much having it there. The other bonus of having the squared angle piece is to provide a stopper and to minimize pin damage from rotating the pin when you are transitioning. This tubing is super solid and can withstand the shear forces that are put on them while touring, more so than the aluminum pins. Solid steel pins are overkill when using the LT bracket. I would still use the solid steel pins on the Voile touring bracket though.

    Binders are at the welder and will be done today. Pics should be up shortly after. Since I can’t test these out soon enough, BGnight will be testing them out for me hopefully this week. I will be going to the Echo Split Fest next weekend and will be bringing these binders (and hopefully some extra ones to demo if I can get my hands on some more bases and slider tracks).

    samh, I am planning on hitting up scrubfest too and I will be bringing them with me if I do go.

    #635309
    samh
    Participant

    @rughty wrote:

    samh, I am planning on hitting up scrubfest too and I will be bringing them with me if I do go.

    I look forward to a closer inspection. You’re doing some nice work.

    --
    samh.net

    #635310
    rughty
    Participant

    All done! :guinness:

    toe weld detail

    slider track refinished

    I have an anodizing company lined up for when I start ramping up future production that would really make these things look sick!

    #635311
    silver
    Participant

    Those are beautiful.

    They also seem to be the same basic design as Sparks’ binders.I don’t mean to open up a can of worms but I’m curious if you could elaborate on the, at least perceived, deficiencies that inspired you to go the custom route and how you’ve addressed them? Or if that’s totally off base, what the other inspiration is?

    Thanks!

    p.s. I’ve been happily riding my ignitions for a couple of seasons now so this shouldn’t be taken as any kind of attack on Sparks. Or on you for that matter. I’ve got a lot of respect for what you’re doing there. Just trying to understand what these offer.

    #635312
    BGnight
    Participant

    If you strap in one and then the other the difference becomes apparent.
    Think about this. If Blazes had a normal 4 hole pattern for a resort binding would you buy it?

    Sparks, Karakoram, and Voile (see, I’m bashing all 3 equally) concentrate too much on the bases and skimp on the actual bindings (straps, chassis, highbacks) themselves. Rughty’s binders are the closest to “normal” resort binders I’ve strapped in to (although Karakorams probably have a tad less play…but not the support). If you’re paying $300+ you should be getting the best highbacks, straps, buckles, and chassis…..but you’re not. (ride buckles do suck however)

    Funny how a guy that’s only been riding for two years figured this out before anyone else.

    #635313
    rughty
    Participant

    @silver wrote:

    Those are beautiful.

    They also seem to be the same basic design as Sparks’ binders.I don’t mean to open up a can of worms but I’m curious if you could elaborate on the, at least perceived, deficiencies that inspired you to go the custom route and how you’ve addressed them? Or if that’s totally off base, what the other inspiration is?

    Thanks!

    p.s. I’ve been happily riding my ignitions for a couple of seasons now so this shouldn’t be taken as any kind of attack on Sparks. Or on you for that matter. I’ve got a lot of respect for what you’re doing there. Just trying to understand what these offer.

    Thanks Silver

    I guess I’ll start with this…I customize everything! I like my gear to work for me, not the other way around. Even old retired gear can become useful again and in some cases waaaay better. :thumpsup: I don’t pay top dollar for anything! I’m too cheap and find that in many cases I can do it better and cheaper than going out and buying it. These are probably my top 2 reasons for doing any kind of mod or project no matter what field of work or play I am involved with.

    I have seen all the binders first hand and have been listening to all the complaints, problems etc… of all the systems, but I have never ridden on a pair of Blazes, Light Rails or Karakorams. I can read all the frustration riders are having with their inadequate gear. I saw some improvements I could handle taking on and these binders were the result. Having been working in a research and development environment for the past 7 years helped me to bring these things to reality.

    My goal with my binders was to make them feel like resort bindings. Some of the things I chose to improve upon were very simple and back to basics changes. Not having a sidewall on a base is retarded. You lose a lot of strength not to mention foot roll while strapped in. Flimsy high backs provide little to no support. I am very keen on that flaw now having suffered a broken leg early in the season. In creating these binders I found that I also have the ability to customize widths! My boot and binding are such a good fit that they feel like one solid piece. Because of this, I believe that response will be significantly quicker and initiating turns will require less effort. I want peace of mind knowing what I am riding is reliable and up for whatever challenges I can throw at it. I think that there was too fast of a progression towards lightweight and not enough progression on comfort and strength. Just looking at these new systems have me doubting their capability and that isn’t what I want to be thinking as I am skinning up to some gnarly line out in the middle of nowhere… I agree with BG on the buckles, but they just happened to be the ones that came with the binders. ๐Ÿ˜† I am actually looking into new straps, buckles and sublimated highbacks in the near future! :bananas: and come up with a good name for them :scratch:

    edit: custom width promotes tight boot to binding interface. No more slop here.

    #635314
    silver
    Participant

    Thanks for the response Rughty. Comfort, durability, and response are worthy goals, not to mention just the satisfaction of making one’s own.

    Custom widths to match up to boots sounds awesome. Seems like an obvious place to tighten up a setup.

    I’m on the smaller side (170 with my pack on) so I don’t worry much about the strength of my bindings. If I was pushing 220 with my gear I might feel differently.

    My ignitions have a sidewall even if it’s not quite as substantial as the support your sporting. Having never ridden a sidewall-less binding I wonder if I’d miss it…

    Also, when I stopped to think about BG’s response it made me realize that although I’ve been snowboarding for some time now, I’ve never owned a top shelf set of resort bindings. I’ve put good money into boards and boots instead. Now I wonder what I’m missing.

    Anyway, stoked keep up the good work. Always cool to see new perspectives, and more importantly, new perspective made into reality.

    #635315
    AK_Split
    Participant

    Nice work Rughty! I was so frustrated with Voile slider performance I was about to do the same thing, except I cant weld so would have had to pay. At that time the Ignition 1s came out so I got those and mounted up Ride heel cups, highbacks and staps. That setup is probably closer to yours than the Blaze. I highly recomend you look into welding little wings or supports on the sides under the toes and heels to increase board to binding contact and reduce the binding roll caused by the Voile pucks. That wider contact area sems to be the best thing about the Spark bindings and made a huge improvement in ride performance.

    Now if you can find a way to rig that LT bracket adapter directly into your boots, you can drop a few pounds off tour mode (910g x 2 = 1820g x 2.2 = 4 lbs!) and carry the binders in your pack.

    #635316
    BGnight
    Participant

    @AK_Split wrote:

    I highly recomend you look into welding little wings or supports on the sides under the toes and heels to increase board to binding contact and reduce the binding roll caused by the Voile pucks. That wider contact area sems to be the best thing about the Spark bindings and made a huge improvement in ride performance.

    I suggested the same thing until I felt his first batch of these binders. There is actually less side to side play with the last binding pictured as there is with the Blazes. The sides of the Sparks bases don’t actually touch the board surface. They just look like they should have less play but when I tested both strapped in side by side the Rughty had much less wobble in all directions. Super tight. At least imo. YMMV

    #635317
    rughty
    Participant

    @AK_Split wrote:

    I highly recomend you look into welding little wings or supports on the sides under the toes and heels to increase board to binding contact and reduce the binding roll caused by the Voile pucks.

    A quick study in force distribution and physics would reveal a flaw with adding any contact points directly to the board from the binding. Voile was very smart in how they designed their puck system. If the board is not allowed to flex because a contact point doesn’t allow it to, shear forces take over and snap your board right at the contact point. BS had this problem with his custom Sentury split. Also any sharp edges on your resort bindings that contact the board surface should also be rounded to allow your board to flex at the contact point. You just might find your boards will last a little longer.

    Just when I thought they were done
    hole drilled for a coated cable leash to be installed at a later date

    brass bushing with new hollow ss pin

    #635318
    rughty
    Participant

    @AK_Split wrote:

    I highly recomend you look into welding little wings or supports on the sides under the toes and heels to increase board to binding contact and reduce the binding roll caused by the Voile pucks.

    A quick study in force distribution and physics would reveal a flaw with adding any contact points directly to the board from the binding. Voile was very smart in how they designed their puck system. If the board is not allowed to flex because a contact point doesn’t allow it to, shear forces take over and snap your board right at the contact point. BS had this problem with his custom Sentury split. Also any sharp edges on your resort bindings that contact the board surface should also be rounded to allow your board to flex at the contact point. You just might find your boards will last a little longer.

    Just when I thought they were done
    hole drilled for a coated cable leash to be installed at a later date

    bronze bushing with new hollow ss pin

    #635319
    keffler
    Participant

    Great Work! The welding you’ve done is very clean. This has been a fun thread to watch as you keep tweaking your design. I’m sure this has been a great distraction while your ankle is healing. Hoping to make it up to ScrubFest so maybe I’ll get a chance to see more of your work up close. A friend of mine got a set of bindings from you and we are almost done with his board.

    viewtopic.php?f=16&t=9443

    I’ll post up when we finish and mount your bindings.

    #635320
    Chewbacca
    Participant

    I am curious. why couldn’t you use the original holes in the slider plates to stick the locking pin through? Did you weld the binding further back on the Plate?

    Killer binding nonetheless.

    #635305
    rughty
    Participant

    My first intention was to only use the slider plate “as is”. It was an ok setup and what anybody who bolts on slider tracks to their resort binders is used to. If you look at a binder mounted on a slider track verses the Blaze when mounted in touring mode you will notice some key differences.

    First of all, the slider track fits inside the Voile touring bracket when the Spark bases fit outside of the bracket. The interface contacts are wider on the Spark setup allowing greater lateral stability. Ever seen the car commercial where they state “wider is better”? Well, it’s true!

    Secondly, Spark came out with a new touring bracket that is only compatible with the Spark bases. They will not work if you are using slider plates. I wanted to take advantage of the weight savings that Spark accomplished using the new bracket so I was forced to create that welded toe piece which also turned into the new toe ramp. So, not only is the LT bracket lighter than Voile’s stamped steel touring bracket, it does less damage to your pins because of how they are designed.

    The Voile touring bracket is made from a very narrow stamped steel plate. The holes are sharp and have very little contact area with the pins causing very high stresses to be put on your heavy steel pins and high pin wear is the result. The LT bracket holes are 1/2 inch wide and have a bushing pressed in to keep your pins from wearing down due to the added surface area contact. With the LT bracket, the stresses are reduced to the point that Spark offered an aluminum pin saving even more weight. Aluminum pins are too weak in my opinion so I opted for stainless steel tubing to get my weight savings and being a harder metal will last longer. I also pressed in a hard metal bushing made from brass or bronze (not sure which stock I grabbed) which wears less than the plastic bushings that Spark uses on their Blazes and rotates smoother while touring. When those plastic bushings wear or fall out, Blaze owners will find themselves having to replace their pins often or go back to the steel pins because aluminum gauls heavily when rubbing against another metal.

    Third reason is all about Mr. Chomps… To put on a Voile splitboard crampon, you are forced to take the binding out of the touring bracket AND use a longer pin. What a waste! Spark’s Mr Chomps can be installed without even taking your foot out of the binding or removing the binder from the touring bracket and uses the same pin. This is way more efficient! Those Spark R&D guys are smart as hell, but with weight savings being #1, a few mods have to be made to make their gear last longer.

    Sorry for the long explanation, but I have only touched the surface of the difference between the two setups. To go into full detail would require big words and a couple of pages and I’m not that dedicated. ๐Ÿ˜†

    #635321
    Chewbacca
    Participant

    @rughty wrote:


    Sorry for the long explanation, but I have only touched the surface of the difference between the two setups. To go into full detail would require big words and a couple of pages and I’m not that dedicated. ๐Ÿ˜†

    Hey THANX for the long explanation, that is way more than I was hoping for.

    You are killing me with all the stuff you are making. This week I will finally get around having my board water jet cut and installing the split kit. I haven’t gotten over CAD stage of my slider rails yet, but have allready talket to our machine shop at work to have them made.

    Good healing with your ankle and keep up the good work!

    #635322
    BGnight
    Participant

    Another pair! :rock:

    #635323
    russman
    Participant

    F***IN A DUDES!!!!!!

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