Forums Splitboard Talk Forum Kooky Stance Angle Theories
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  • #601005

    Wow, sanfrantastico thanks for those links! Esp the TC piece.

    Man, that guy has it all for soul surfing. Wicked front and back side slashes coupled with Killer bottom turns. That was an inspiration.

    DFT’s stance: meh, more or less 16-3 (sometimes more in the front).

    I could never ride duck – oddest feeling ever for me.

    #601006
    SanFrantastico
    1514 Posts

    I’m glad you guys liked those clips. Yeah – I really like how Tom Curren flows. Does anyone else see a parallel between his style and the way Craig Kelly freerides? Let it Ride was my first exposure to CK and it blew me away a little.

    I’ve had some time on my new stance now and I’m pretty stoked on it.

    Putting the poo in swimming pool since 1968.

    #601007
    zero
    18 Posts

    Good thread, since it’s freeriding focused. So many stance thoughts are freestyle oriented.

    With a relatively stiff soft boot setup, I use 24, 9, considering going to 24, 6. More forward angle = way smoother heel to toe and more flowing carves down the fall line. More back = more power on an individual edge and better for low speed, grunty like turns–steep, heavy powder, almost jump turns at low speed. But once the speed opens up, forward angles make sure you deliver the big s carves, and don’t overturn away from the fall line, like so many snowboarders are plagued with.

    I used 33, 15 for a while for carving hard pack groomers. Awesome for that, and made me understand the hard boot thing (but never went all the way there.) But it felt like the edge power was too week at low speed. Settled on 24, 9 for a couple years. I only ride powder anymore. Tried 21, 6 recently and worked fine, but felt slower edge to edge, and the body stance encouraged continuing on one edge instead of dropping back into the fall line for the next turn. Will try 24, 6 next, hoping it maintains the forward stance for flow down the fall line, but keeps good power on the back leg for muscling through crap. Amazing what 3deg can do.

    Obviously I never ride fakie on this setup. Trying to also accommodate switch riding will be a compromise to almost any stance, and not worth it for my riding.

    I don’t think surfboard stance is a great comparison, because the ankles are so free, stance is wider, and can be adjusted whenever you like. I don’t think I would ever notice 3deg on a surfboard. Duck on a surfboard feels natural at times; I doubt I could do it on a snowboard.

    Most pro riders need to ride switch for difficulty points, so they setup stances to accommodate that. But most average snowboarders have really horrible carving technique compared to skiers. I attribute a lot of that to them having stance angles set too far back. For freestyle the compromise may be worth it, but for the average person you see skidding around trying to freeride at resorts, they probably need to get more forward angle on the board, and learn from there.

    #601008
    TEX
    2486 Posts

    Yo San Frantastico…You hit the nail on the head. Larry Bertleman and Gerry Lopez are both childhood heros of sort.

    Zero..I think this may be a matter of style

    and don’t overturn away from the fall line, like so many snowboarders are plagued with.

    When Im linking turns I sometimes overturn downhill and hold the turn longer. This sends more “spray” up just as it would when surfing. This type of behavior wont get you down faster but it sure looks good when done right.

    Otto wrote

    No real need to fuss

    Find an old clip of Mark Richards surfing. Talk about a wierd stance. They used to call him the “wounded Gull” His arms looked like they were flailing and his feet were too close. But then again he did win 3 of 4 championships

    Thats kinda how I fell. Jump off a bed like a ninja and look at your feet.

    #601009
    SchralphMacchio
    474 Posts

    It’s definitely all about the knees as other people have mentioned.

    I was telling SF last week that last season I started switching it up between duck and freeride depending on the conditions and what I was trying to ride. I would go duck for a day tooling around in the park or hitting tight moguly runs, and then switch up to freeride for powder and/or wide open runs. I used to only ride freeride for years and on my smaller boards got as aggressive as +33/+21 (softboot) at one point. I figured that forcing myself to adapt my technique to the board setup would increase my ability.

    One thing I noticed is that in a ducked out stance (+18/-9) I have a tendency to bring my back (right) knee forward every once in a while, instead of outward. This wasn’t too good, but has generally been okay, up until Monday.

    On Monday I set up a board a ducked out goofy (I am normally the other way), trying to work on my switch riding. I was trying some 180’s on flat snow when I fell and as I was falling my upper (right) leg and knee went one way (counterclockwise) and my foot and board went the other way (clockwise). As I fell I felt horrendous pain and hyperextension – so much so that my knee looks bruised like someone kicked me or I hit something … but the bruise and blowing out capillaries was caused by internal forces.

    So I’m seeing an orthopedic specialist today and hoping I’ll be back in commission soon … BUT

    Something to think about when you’re working on your stance is to pay very close attention to your knees! It’s all about the knees …

    #601010
    T
    46 Posts

    @SanFrantastico wrote:

    Does anyone else see a parallel between his style and the way Craig Kelly freerides? Let it Ride was my first exposure to CK and it blew me away a little.

    YES. For some reason, I think you can really see the parallels on the heelside turns.

    First exposure to CK, eh? What did you think of the film?

    #601011
    SchralphMacchio
    474 Posts

    (continued thread drift)

    woohoo medically cleared! No tears in any ligaments or tendons at all, just a really irritated hamstring muscle that was protecting my knee from exploding!

    (back to your regularly scheduled programming)

    #601012
    jack
    323 Posts

    @SchralphMacchio wrote:

    ….I have a tendency to bring my back (right) knee forward every once in a while, instead of outward. This wasn’t too good, but has generally been okay, up until Monday.

    sounds like the second set of legs in my little drawing, is that right?

    anyway, after being inspired by Tom Curren i setup my solid (159 NS legacy) with a reeeeaaaallllllyyyy wide stance to see what it was like. it is about 23.5 inches wide and i am 5’9″ so if you can imagine, it looks like i should start wearing a basketball jersey and do-rag, move to South Lake and start Steezin it out in the Heavenly Lodge…..for real, yo’

    at first i figured i would have to change it back after one run, but i ended up liking it. i charged Dolfay’s pretty hard (baker classic) and at first i noticed the shorter nose, but after another run, the nose length was fine. it sure makes me feel a lot more stable and big, wide switch carving feels much more natural. i think i will keep it, at least for the time being.

    and zero, to echo TEX, while i agree that a lot of people probably ride duck that never ride switch, and that most may have too much skid in their “skidded turns” i would say that can be attributed more to technique than stance. i think it it quite a stretch to blame ducks for crappy technique. 😉 and along with TEX i imagine, when riding pow i go for the “surfy style”

    #601013
    bcrider
    4150 Posts

    For the record, duck-stances are not considered “natural”. Sure there are some folks that have success with it and it works well for them but as a whole its not something I’d recommend for someone new.

    When I’m teaching my kids or wife the rear foot is always set at 0 and the front foot is either 15 or 18. This is a very natural stance for the board sports that should equate to great results.

    Think about how your knees bend and how that effects your hips when your feet are pointed in opposite directions (duck). Unless you’re duck-footed its everything but natural and is an injury waiting to happen.

    Also look at the amount of angle Tom Curren has in his front foot. Your front foot should point more towards the falline of the slope rather than perpendicular to it. Riding with less than 15 degrees in the front is whack. So are super wide stances. Again, there are exceptions, but as a whole wide duck stances = fugly style in my opinion. (so do hardboots :lol:)

    But don’t listen to me, I’ve only been snowboarding, surfing, and skating for 25 years or so. If the duck works for you then as the old saying goes “if it aint broke don’t fix it” and if your new to the board sports get out there and play with your angles till you find what works best for you….just don’t pull a schralpmachhio! 😉

    Sorry bro, couldnt resist. HEAL UP!

    #601014
    jack
    323 Posts

    oh yeah, i forgot to mention my style is totally wack 😉

    #601015
    snownskate
    140 Posts

    ahem, hi my name’s snownskate and i ride a duck stance.

    I just switched up from a 24/-24 to 21/-21….absolutely love it. Have always ridden duck (11 years) and actually used to ride something like a 18/-24….though i’m not sure how to this day. My skating style is definitely ducked, I feel it keeps me more squared up when riding….besides switch face shots are a blast. It’s all about the comfort and the only way to find what works for you is trying many different styles/angles.

    #601016
    TEX
    2486 Posts

    BCR wrote

    But don’t listen to me, I’ve only been snowboarding, surfing, and skating for 25 years or so

    Only 25? Ive been out for 32 years.

    I remember all of this(except snowboarding) before contests and sponsorship. Back when you could ride anyway and any thing. Ah those were the days.

    Sponsorship and contest killed individuality. Judges started telling people what to ride…how to stand…what tricks to do and now we all seem to strive to look alike?

    #601017
    bcrider
    4150 Posts

    @TEX wrote:

    Ive been out for 32 years.

    Back when you could ride anyway and any thing.

    Ahh gramps….I mean TEX….:)

    You still CAN ride any way and any thing you want. Nobody here in splitboarding cares about any of that other stuff in your rant. That’s one of the great things about splitboarding. We don’t have to be slaves to the latest trends and BS a la Transworld Snowboarding.

    No reason to get defensive Tex and Jack, part of my point was just that while duck stances may work for some, its not generally the most common or most recommended stance that people point their feet in opposite directions while doing board sports. Its unnatural for the majority of folks and defies a lot of the natural dynamics. THIS DOESN’T MEAN IT IS NOT THE BEST OPTION FOR SOME FOLKS.

    Are you saying that it is the most common and recommended stance?

    #601018
    jack
    323 Posts

    @bcrider wrote:

    No reason to get defensive Tex and Jack, part of my point was just that while duck stances may work for some, its not generally the most common or most recommended stance that people point their feet in opposite directions while doing board sports….

    hey no worries, i was just stirring the pot a little, after all this is the “kooky theories thread” not the “good ideas thread” 😀

    i guess i am also much more of a freak than i thought. i must be the only one with this problem (from another thread):

    @jack wrote:

    one thing that was kind of annoying though is i am so duck footed that it is hard to keep my skis parallel i resolved this on the old setup by putting a few degrees on my bindings relative to the slider plates, can’t do that with the Sparks though. however, i am probably the only freak with that problem and i am sure my technique will compensate….

    when i was an instructor, the rental shop usually set kids up with a duck stance with the same angles like +/- 10 or something. probably just because they didn’t want to bother finding out if kids were goofy.

    #601019
    TEX
    2486 Posts

    Hey just cause I stink ,cant see and cant hold my pee that dont make me old

    What Im saying is There is no common stance. Take a look at wakeboarding and wakeskateing. Always duck. And I dont see many people riding waves with their front foot running with the stringer.
    I think …and again thats I THINK that steep forward angles on both fett usually come from more of a skiing background. Again not always …just what I have seen talking to hard boot carvers.

    #601020
    bcrider
    4150 Posts

    @TEX wrote:

    What Im saying is There is no common stance. Take a look at wakeboarding and wakeskateing. Always duck.

    Sure there is. If you polled 100 splitters and only 10% rode switch then the most common stance would be considered anything but switch.

    Also, in terms of wakeboarding, while I’m no pro…my stance is still the same on a wakeboard as it is on a snowboard. So to say its always duck isn’t very accurate. (unless I’m just a total wakeboard gaper which is entirely possible)

    @TEX wrote:

    And I dont see many people riding waves with their front foot running with the stringer.
    I think …and again thats I THINK that steep forward angles on both fett usually come from more of a skiing background. Again not always …just what I have seen talking to hard boot carvers.

    Put the crack pipe down! 🙂
    Who said anything about running really steep angles? We’ve been talking about duck vs non-duck. If you ran your foot with the stringer that would be a 90degree angle, we’ve been talking about 15-18 for the most part. Hardbooters typically run steeper angles but no where near 90degees…that’d be a skiing stance as you said. 😆

    Having angle in your front foot is critical but having toooo much of it can be akward for most folks, especially in the air.

    #601021
    TEX
    2486 Posts

    No crack pipe only chronic pipe But I though the header of the thread was “Kooky stance angles”

    Then again maybe Ive had enough Diesel cush for one weekend

    #601022
    Jon Dahl
    384 Posts

    SKIING??!! I probably run the steepest angles here, and I’ve never skied. Well, once when I was 8 in my front yard in Wisconson…. 🙄 I believe in running what is most comfortable for yourself. And bcrider is correct about big duck stances, and there is some medical research to back it up, just don’t remember where I saw it…..

    #601023
    Mumbles
    753 Posts

    I used to ride with an orthopedic surgeon who claimed to know and even had done surgery on Jake Burton. He also claimed duck stance riders kept him in the knee rebuilding business. I have only ridden with one rider in my entire 20 years that ran duck regularly. I have seen a handfull while riding in various places around the states and europe, but most ride Zero to + angles that I have seen. My most severe angles are with hard boots and alpine carving boards with very narrow waistlines. To each their own, and some of us have many of our own. If it feels good, ride it, if not, change it. Riding should be rip roaring fun, comfortable, flowing and damn we should look good too, right?

    #601024
    Jon Dahl
    384 Posts

    Hey, mumbles, whatcha got in the inventory for a carvin’ stick? I’ve got a Volkl Renntiger 173 right now, goes with my Rad-Air Vessel 156 BX board. 😀

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