Forums Splitboard Talk Forum Heelside turns/steeps/soft boots/strap bindings
Viewing 11 posts - 21 through 31 (of 31 total)
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  • #582912
    Eric
    60 Posts

    I’m pushing the edge the hardest just before and during the apex of a turn

    This part ➡ C

    I then unweight just at the end of the turn, flip from edge to edge, and repeat. If I’m stopping, or not switching edges, I effectivly unweight the edge as if I were to flip laterally. If my turn looks like ( instead of C I can get edge drift as my tail worms around to catch up with my cross-fallline nose.

    I may be off still, but if bending your knees together is helping, you are effectivly decambering the board “as if” the board were in the apex part of the ➡ C. Widening my stance certainly helped with balance, but ‘m not sure how it could help de-cambering a board.

    Not trying to be a smart ass, just trying to work it out myself 😉

    #582913
    jimw
    1421 Posts

    I see what you’re saying…

    OK, more clarification. In the situations where I’m more likely to slip out, I’m using doing more jump turning than “linking” turns or carving. I normally do this on slopes where it’s real steep, narrow, and firm. In these situations, for me, “normal” turns will not slow me down enough to stay in control, and let’s assume there’s a good reason I can’t just point it (other than being a wuss!). When I’m linking normal turns, I’m doing the “C’s” like you’re talking about, and no problem there. Though I think that in this case I’m usually edging hardest *through* the apex, so the middle part of the “C” (maybe that’s what you’re saying too). I guess in the jump turn case, I’m doing more of a “J”. The start of the jump effectively kind of skips the top part of the “C”.

    Here’s a visual of what I’m talking about. Check out this video from the Conness/North Peak trip (no, this is not shameless advertising! :))

    http://www.splitboard.com/vids/Conness050626.wmv

    In the beginning clip, where I’m riding behind bcrider down Conness Glacier, that’s what I’m considering the “normal turns”, connecting the “C’s”. No problem there.

    Go to about 1:30, where bcrider is coming down Fruitcake chute. Most of those are jump turns. That’s where I’m talking about having the slipping issue. You can see where he turns heelside, the board is almost all the way into the turn by the time it is actually digging into the snow.

    An example of the slippage is at 3:15, though the helmet cam doesn’t give the best angle. I jump turn to heelside, and slip out for a bit.

    #582914
    Zach
    127 Posts

    Sit down farther into the turn…. bend more at the knees with your weight centered over the board. Your ass should be over your heelside edge, if not a little past it.

    You can tell that you’re bending at your waist instead of at your knees, in the video, because you flail your hands out in front of you to try and balance.

    #582915
    mtnrider
    740 Posts

    I agree with Zach.

    Head up, stand tall at the waist this will throw you all out of wack if not, definitely bend your knees more and keep your shoulders more parallel to the slope angle.
    The faster and more agressive you want to ride, the more you’ll want to emphasize the above.

    This is a great discussion.

    #582916
    Zach
    127 Posts

    Oddly enough, I had the exact same problem, until I switched to hard boots. 2 things about hard boots helped alleviate it:

    1. Generally increased focus on using my entire legs as suspension

    2. Stance… I found that an aggressive, forward stance is more natural for me and makes it easier to squat correctly. Try this exercise: load a squat bar with about 10lbs on each side, then do 40 squats with your eyes closed (***NOTE – make sure you are wearing a hip belt and have a spotter for this). At the end of your squats, look at where your feet are positioned. This is your natural stance position. My feet came out square with my shoulders and straight forward.

    Zach

    #582917
    huevon
    124 Posts

    Is it driving anyone else nuts to talk about this stuff in so much detail… makes my jonesing for snow season so, so much worse. 😯

    Cuz if this discussion was happening on the slopes, my first comment would be JUST RIP IT! TEAR THAT SHIT UP, AND I’LL SEE YOU AT THE BOTTOM!

    #582918
    huevon
    124 Posts

    @jimw wrote:

    An example of the slippage is at 3:15, though the helmet cam doesn’t give the best angle. I jump turn to heelside, and slip out for a bit.

    Looking back again at your (awesome) video footage, and in light of comments here, I guess the idea would have been to carve the turn more, instead of the jump directly from toe to heel. If you had been able to drop into heelside with more of a carve, you might have gotten better edge penetration and tracking, and stayed more in control.

    Come to think of it the last time I had a long slip, I had done almost exactly what you did (minus the bergshcrund–that came later, and that’s a different story…).

    #582919
    jimw
    1421 Posts

    @zach wrote:

    Sit down farther into the turn…. bend more at the knees with your weight centered over the board. Your ass should be over your heelside edge, if not a little past it.

    Thanks for the comment. I’ve found this to be true as well. I alluded to this earlier when mentioning that bending my knees more than usual helps, but I didn’t mention the rest of the position which is as you describe.

    You can tell that you’re bending at your waist instead of at your knees, in the video, because you flail your hands out in front of you to try and balance.

    The helmet cam angle lies. 🙂 I’m not bending at the waist. Here’s the breakdown. At 3:17, I jump turn to heelside. BTW the slope angle here is somewhere around 50. As I land heelside, I slip out as I try to get purchase. This point is the whole crux of this discussion for me. Anyway, then I start sliding with my left hand dragging behind me trying to push my ass back off the slope, and the right hand “flails” in front for a moment, which is typical when you slip out or overrotate a turn in that direction. Now we’re at about 3:19 and the “sliding=bad” text comes on. Right now I’ve still got the edge in the snow but because I’m still almost sitting down and trying to correct that I’m not really slowing down. About 3 seconds later the right hand comes back in front as I go through the choke, and I get it back together, and then you see the hands again – only this isn’t flailing, I’m actually turning toeside at this point.

    It’s hard to get this from the footage from that angle. I guess my point is I get what you’re saying, but I don’t think that was the culprit in this case.

    @huevon wrote:

    I guess the idea would have been to carve the turn more, instead of the jump directly from toe to heel. If you had been able to drop into heelside with more of a carve, you might have gotten better edge penetration and tracking, and stayed more in control.

    Agreed, but the crux I guess is the “if you had been able” part. I guess in that situation I felt that the amount of additional acceleration I would have gotten from doing more of a carve-type turn initiation vs. jumping would have been such that I would have been going too fast to keep it in control (of course in this case the jump turn didn’t fare so well either! :))

    Let me refine the question a bit. Suppose you’re making a heelside jump turn in a no-fall zone, and you can’t straightline it or otherwise open up full carves. You need the jump turn for control. Example is the footage of bcrider mentioned above. What are the keys to avoiding slipping out on the heelside jump turn in that case?

    (Obviously we could argue whether or not it is “necessary” to make jump turns in certain situations… but my point is that it’s obviously possible, and certain people seem to do it better than others, and I want to get better at it.)

    #582920
    montoya
    46 Posts

    jimw sometimes when I would hit up a resort we would lap big moguls just for the hell of it. It did seem to help fine-tune my jump-turning technique, as that was the only way I could get down. It was pretty exhausting though.

    #582921
    butryon
    47 Posts

    jimw,
    it looks to me like your cheating your turn on the heelside. jump turning or carving it you still need to follow through. by this i mean to keep your head and shoulders over your front leg and your arms tucked in. i think a lot of people start to swing their arms and this redistributes the weight over the board causing one to loose their edge. the steeper it gets the more precise one needs to be, thus more careful with arms swinging due to how much easier/faster it is to loose edge contact. hope this makes sense, i do not think it’s the boots
    cool video, i shit myself when you fell!!

    #582922
    jimw
    1421 Posts

    Thanks for the ideas. I think I know what you’re talking about. The video is kind of a bad example because you can’t really see what I’m doing. Some of that arm swinging in there is because I’ve already slipped out and trying to regain control, but some could certainly be what you’re talking about too. I think maybe your suggestion could also be related to not keeping enough weight forward over the board, seems to be an easy mistake on the steeps. I’ll try to keep the follow through in mind next time.

    Any more ideas? Keep ’em coming! 🙂

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