Forums Bindings Hardbooter Bindings with locked heels in tour?
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  • #573943
    PowderNewb
    24 Posts

    Is it possible to have a system with a hardboot like the dynafit but also have:
    1. Locking heels in with release for ski mode.
    2. A plate or kakoram clip for board mode? Would the locking toe and heel assembly compromise real estate for the board aspect?

    #633433
    Snurfer
    1448 Posts

    I don’t have an answer, but an observation….

    With all due respect (and based on your other posts) why don’t you just ski?
    I’m not trying to give you a hard time, but it seems like your heart is with skiing not boarding.
    Either way, I hope you figure it out and have a good season, however you choose to do it.

    Shark Snowsurf Chuna
    Voile V-Tail 170 BC
    Voile One Ninety Five
    Spark R&D Arc

    #633434
    aliasptr
    282 Posts

    See this post: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=6843

    Really pretty sweet I gotta admit. I would love to have that kind of flexibility on my board now and then. I skied as a kid and skied a day last year and it was a blast. Soft boots and sparks aren’t very “responsive” while skiing but what do you expect? It’s obviously a compromise in skiing performance for actual snowboarding performance!

    #633435
    PowderNewb
    24 Posts

    Simply because I want to board from the peak down but dont want to swap for a few steep hills down along the way. I’d feel much more stable if I could lock in the heels to stop.
    @Snurfer wrote:

    I don’t have an answer, but an observation….

    With all due respect (and based on your other posts) why don’t you just ski?
    I’m not trying to give you a hard time, but it seems like your heart is with skiing not boarding.
    Either way, I hope you figure it out and have a good season, however you choose to do it.

    #633436
    buell
    534 Posts

    I think you said you are new to snow sports. A lot of the questions you are asking are about very technical gear. Most of us working on this stuff are skilled snowboarders and experienced splitboarders.

    My own observation is that you start simple on soft boots and a solid board or on skis, inbounds. Make sure you are reasonably skilled by spending time in a resort because learning in the BC will be very slow (not to mention the difficulty and bad habits you will pick up if learning to snowboard in AT boots) and an injury is much more serious without ski patrol around. Get a feel for what you like and how stuff performs inbounds first.

    Then work on the equipment you want to ride in the BC. Take your avy class.

    #633437
    PowderNewb
    24 Posts

    Reading the bomber site for hardbooting says learning on hardboots could actually be easier, possilbly easier transition for skiers.
    I am curious of what these bad habits hardboots might give?

    #633438
    Pow-D-Rider
    48 Posts

    PowderNewb and anyone new to splitboarding;

    Buell is right on in saying:

    My own observation is that you start simple on soft boots and a solid board or on skis, inbounds. Make sure you are reasonably skilled by spending time in a resort because learning in the BC will be very slow (not to mention the difficulty and bad habits you will pick up if learning to snowboard in AT boots) and an injury is much more serious without ski patrol around. Get a feel for what you like and how stuff performs inbounds first.

    Then work on the equipment you want to ride in the BC. Take your avy class.

    .

    Learn to ski and snowboard at a resort first, and take an intro Avy Class, before going into the backcountry! Then consider demo-ing gear on a guided trip /avy course!

    Learning to snowboard can be a fun and sometimes a painful experience. Learning usually entails getting through the “fall wall”; which entails learning the snowboard dynamics of edge pressure and control. Learning usually involves catching an edge and going down hard, until you have got it mastered. Hence the need for taking lessons (and not by your friends) to minimize the pain and maximize the fun. Learning from hardboots/ freecarve, would make it harder to feel (for a beginner” affect snowboard “edge pressure” and easier to catch an edge. For more information on edge pressure and learning to snowboard, checkout “GO SNOWBOARD” book/DVD by McNabb at your library.

    Once you an intermediate snowboarder, consider taking a lesson or come to the SES freecarve session, held every February in Aspen (see bomberonline.com) for details, and learn to freecarve.

    Why hardboots for splitboarding, was addressed in this post:http://splitboard.com/talk/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8706&p=62954

    Also splitboarding involves skiing, so a lot of skills to learn before heading out to the backcountry.

    That said, I love riding and skiing in my AT hardboots / splitboard!

    “Good Learning” in pursuit for powder.

    #633439
    russman
    692 Posts

    Man, most of you guys sound like dicks!

    Give the guy a little break?

    I’m not going to address the debate between hard and soft boots, BUT, learning in soft boots in a resort teaches you how to use your feet and ankles properly. All the best snowboarders know how to manage their feet and body rotation…. And most of them are in soft boots…

    I will also say that because I skied for more than 5 years when I was a kid, learning to “ski” my splitboard the past few years has been a blast. Most of the time I do not need my heels locked down to feel secure in ski mode. I can make it down black diamond runs inbounds in ski mode and without skins on. Its all about keeping your center of mass over your toes with your knees bent, and keeping your upper body in control with no counter movements. (FYI: The Karakoram touring interface doesn’t hurt for ski mode, either 😉 ) ALSO, if you DID lock your heels down, you would increase your risk of knee injury astronomically. Because our heels are free, when we fall our knees aren’t torqued to the same extent… There’s a reason why alpine ski bindings release!

    #633440
    buell
    534 Posts

    @russman wrote:

    Man, most of you guys sound like dicks!

    Are you aware that PowderNewb is new to snowsports? Or are you just stirring shit up again?

    The advice that has been offered is sound considering he doesn’t have any significant snow experience on any equipment, even inbounds, as far as I can tell.

    Please let me know if I am wrong about that PowderNewb.

    #633441
    PedroDelfuego
    758 Posts

    @russman wrote:

    . I can make it down black diamond runs inbounds in ski mode and without skins on.

    your my hero ferris bueller…..

    #633442
    ehcarley
    411 Posts

    Powdernewb- these guys are right about learning at a ski mountain. You should not be learning to ski or snowboard in the back country. There are a lot of variables that are not controlled in the BC that are controlled at the resort. 1- Grooming. As a beginner, grooming is your friend. A nice consistent grade and surface. 2-lifts. Learning to ski or snowboard is exhausting enough with out having to hike up and down a slope each run. 3. Instructors. This should actually be #1. Take a few lessons in your chosen discipline. 4. The lodge- you get cold, you go inside, dry off a bit, get some hot chocolate, and you are ready to go back out. Not an option in the backcountry. 5. Ski patrol- hopefully you don’t need them. But if you do, they are there. In the BC, rescue is going to take a few hours, at best, half a day or more at worst.

    The Backcountry is a place for your “A-game”. Most people never explore the back country. Most of the people on splitboards or other BC gear have spent years skiing at the local hill and then move to the BC once they are tired of the hill.

    I’m not trying to discourage you from learning to ski or ride, but you should consider how to make the most out of a new hobby. Jumping into the BC isn’t the way.

    #633443
    PowderNewb
    24 Posts

    I see what you guys are saying but I just want to get the right gear first time around. Whats the point of spending 1k on a board/softboot/binding setup that I dont plan on using for too long? http://www.bomberonline.com/articles/snowboarding_day_one.cfm
    However if learning on softboots is better than I will do so.

    I’ll wear hockey pad shorts I already know bout the fall cycle. I also DH free ride whistler and have way gnarlier crashes on rock and dirt/roots.. all while trying to dodge a 40lb bike …so i’m not to worried. Of course i’ll be doing my learning inbounds on lifts, as it’s much faster way to learn.

    #633444
    PowderNewb
    24 Posts

    I guess there is no release to board mode but because both feet are mounted to the same object it would reduce chances of getting twisted in opposite directions? Of course the heels would have a tension release for ski mode. I’m looking at the dynafit tlt vertical sl binding for ski mode. Based on rental experience i’d say din 7 suits me just fine.
    @russman wrote:

    Man, most of you guys sound like dicks!

    Give the guy a little break?

    I’m not going to address the debate between hard and soft boots, BUT, learning in soft boots in a resort teaches you how to use your feet and ankles properly. All the best snowboarders know how to manage their feet and body rotation…. And most of them are in soft boots…

    I will also say that because I skied for more than 5 years when I was a kid, learning to “ski” my splitboard the past few years has been a blast. Most of the time I do not need my heels locked down to feel secure in ski mode. I can make it down black diamond runs inbounds in ski mode and without skins on. Its all about keeping your center of mass over your toes with your knees bent, and keeping your upper body in control with no counter movements. (FYI: The Karakoram touring interface doesn’t hurt for ski mode, either 😉 ) ALSO, if you DID lock your heels down, you would increase your risk of knee injury astronomically. Because our heels are free, when we fall our knees aren’t torqued to the same extent… There’s a reason why alpine ski bindings release!

    #633445
    buell
    534 Posts

    @PowderNewb wrote:

    I see what you guys are saying but I just want to get the right gear first time around. Whats the point of spending 1k on a board/softboot/binding setup that I dont plan on using for too long? http://www.bomberonline.com/articles/snowboarding_day_one.cfm
    However if learning on softboots is better than I will do so.

    I’ll wear hockey pad shorts I already know bout the fall cycle. I also DH free ride whistler and have way gnarlier crashes on rock and dirt/roots.. all while trying to dodge a 40lb bike …so i’m not to worried. Of course i’ll be doing my learning inbounds on lifts, as it’s much faster way to learn.

    I will say this again. Rebecca and I have both broken legs while learning to snowboard doing things that seemed okay but were not. Rebecca’s sister broke her arm learning. Injuries are common while learning to snowboard and it is really important to have someone, ski patrol, there to haul you off the mountain. In the bc you will likely spend a cold and painful night at best.

    I know Bomber well. It is a niche discipline of snowboarding and you will find riders there who do feel that hardboots are great for learning and freeriding. They are in the vast minority however. I spend a lot of time on hardboots, a carving board, and groomers myself. Carving is amazing. That is a very different set up with different goals and technique than a backcountry AT splitboard set up. Using BOL as a guide for bc split riding with AT boots might also lead you to purchase gear that you do not use very long.

    I split in AT boots and find them superior for me. They are not stock however. They are quite modified, like many splitters in AT boots have also done. Those modifications are done by each individual to suit their style. Most of us are after the feel of softboots for the ride down with the benefits of AT boots for the ascent. Without softboot skills and knowledge, it will be impossible to get your AT boots modified to ride correctly. Maybe things will work out fine, but with my experience in softboots, carving hardboots, and AT boots, I would start in softboots.

    A splitboard does not ride well in a resort. To ride in a resort, you will want a solid board and bindings anyway. Buying that gear will not be a waste. Gear that you learn on will be different from gear that you ride in a year or two anyway if you get enough days.

    Yes, you will learn to split ski without a locked down heel. It can be done fairly well.

    One of my main rules for splitboarding is start with the simplest option. Add if you need to by testing. Not the other way around.

    #633446
    ehcarley
    411 Posts

    @buell wrote:

    Yes, you will learn to split ski without a locked down heel. It can be done fairly well.

    One of my main rules for splitboarding is start with the simplest option. Add if you need to by testing. Not the other way around.

    Quoted for truth. I would encourage you to not go buy something. Rent some gear, take a lesson and see if you even like it. Hell, try skis and snowboarding. Rentals are not that expensive. Give it a few days on each. You really shouldn’t be out in the BC in your first season unless that is a 100 day season and you start around day 70.

    Rentals are the way to start, lessons are important. Get the hang of it on lifts, learn to ride BC once you know how to ride the blacks in any conditions.

    #633447
    tiltedworld
    406 Posts

    Rent tele’s for a few days and you won’t care about a fixed heel. Snowplow, Stem Christie and a good ‘ole tele turn will get you through most.

    I could even make large radius tele turns on my 100cm short skis. Besides who cares if you bail a few times.

    #633448
    hyzerbomber
    46 Posts

    ya know how to get to nashville right?

    Practice, practice, practice…..
    :rock: :rock:
    These guys have some good points about taking small steps to accomplish your goal. Beating up rental gear is a great idea that has been floated here. Among other things I would recommend this too.

    (( Donek Hazelwood ))
    • Solid / Custom / 173 Length / 28.9 Waist / CATEK
    (( Donek Hazelwood ))
    • Split / Custom / 173 Length / 28.9 Waist / Spark Dyno DH / Phantom Rocket Risers / SpeedTurn Toes&Heels

    #633449
    Zee
    136 Posts

    I’m of the mindset that you should be able to ski/ride resort double blacks easily without falling, and be very comfortable on blacks before you venture into the BC.

    #633450
    chrisNZ
    304 Posts

    Carrying on with the derail, but you will know when your ready for the backcountry, and i doubt its in the first year. The average time riding of most splitboarders would be 10years+? and get soft boot bindings who cares if its harder to ski harder to climb the reason your out their is to ride! easy game.

    #633451
    shasta
    143 Posts

    You should be able to get down most hills on the up w/o locking heels. Would be nice to lock ’em but there is something to be said for keeping it simple.

    What the fuck is up with the elitist attitude on this site? :bow: Everybody is an expert these days it seems, all too willing to put a curious guy in his “place.” Now I understand the genisis of the joke:

    Q. What is the difference between a snowboard instructor and a snowboard student?
    A. 3 days!

    By the way the only way a splitter gets down a legit double black in ski mode is head over heels so that comment is self aggrandizing crap.

    You do not need to reach some skill benchmark to venture into the B.C., just pick a line that matches your ability and be avy prepared. And if you want to start in hardboots do it there is no secret method you learn in softies you cant figure out in stiffies.

    I think I was better off as a beginning splitter without these forums to oppress my enthusiasm.

    Have a nice day :guinness:

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