Forums Splitboard Talk Forum Hard Boot Doubters… Watch this vid
Viewing 20 posts - 41 through 60 (of 132 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #662815
    fustercluck
    668 Posts

    Yeah, it doesn’t make sense to me why anyone would wanna ride a snowboard in ski boots. I suppose it could be slightly more efficient on the uphill, but I’ll still get there. Not knocking it, it just ain’t for me, and trying to use this video to change that would be like using Deeper/Further to change someone’s mind about hardboots. But if someone hooks me up with a plane ticket and a camera guy, I’d gladly rip the piss outta that terrain just to show you hardbooters what’s up.

    #662816
    Powder_Rider
    498 Posts

    I really like Joey’s passion for Splitboarding and his mellow attitude for enjoying life.

    So I tried a pair of Burton Driver X’s last week. For me; the Driver X’s rode about the same as my stock Stock F1’s. In other word’s my F1’s and Bomber Sidewinder Bindings were just as surfy as the Driver X boots.

    For me I am sticking with the F1 boots and selling the Burton Driver X boots.

    #662817
    KGN
    215 Posts

    I like the vids, hes ripping pretty good 😀 I don’t really get the comments on his style, looks pretty smooth.

    And no POV so he gets extra points for that :thumbsup:

    #662818
    FloImSchnee
    291 Posts

    @fustercluck wrote:

    Yeah, it doesn’t make sense to me why anyone would wanna ride a snowboard in ski boots.

    Easier to kick steps on steeps, when snowboard is on your back,
    Feet don’t hurt when crampons are attached to them for many hours, as sole is 100% stiff,
    Going up is more efficient (lighter feet, more shaft movement),
    Easier traverses (more feel/control of side edge),
    Crampons faster to be put on,
    Fastening of binding is quicker.

    I’m still on softboots (Flow The One), but eager to demo AT boots soon. Unfortunately, TLT5s are too narrow for my forefoot. However, if I can’t get the same board feel as with softboots, I won’t convert.

    #662819
    barrows
    1490 Posts

    Add to the list of HB advantages:

    lighter system weight, much lighter touring weight on the foot, no more broken straps, system redundency: if a binding breaks, one still has the Dynafit touring toe pieces and can still exit from deep in the backcountry. Warmer (in many, but not all, cases). More comfortable (with proper boot fitting). Much easier on/off (this might seem trivial, but anyone who basecamps for lines can appreciate this advantage).

    As to Russ’ comments on turning by using the hips and/or upper body-Joey does not ride that way, and neither do I, but I know exactly what he is talking about. If one has a hard boot which is too stiff, it will not allow the foot/ankle articulation necessary for good snowboarding performance. I have felt this many times (with too stiff un-modified hard boots), one turns into a totally awkward, stiff, frankenstein rider with a set up like this. I initiate turns using my feet/ankles when appropriate with my TLT5s using exactly the same techniques I used with my Driver Xs-these boots flex the same, and my stance is the same (Joey rides duck BTW), in fact, my TLT5s are actually a little softer than my Driver Xs of a few seasons ago.

    The (usually modified) lightweight AT boots riders are using now are much, much softer than what one normally thinks of as “ski boots”, if you have not tried a (appropriately modded) TLT5, Scarpa F1 or Rush, you really do not know anything about these boots and how they flex. Joey is riding a (modded) TLT5 in this video.

    I am not interested in getting everyone to switch to a hard boot system, please, ride whatever you want! My only concern is that people understand (and overcome their biases) that there is no compromise in riding performance with a properly sorted HB set up (modded for appropriate flex and well fitted boot).

    #662820
    HansGLudwig
    601 Posts

    @floimschnee wrote:

    I’m still on softboots (Flow The One), but eager to demo AT boots soon. Unfortunately, TLT5s are too narrow for my forefoot.

    Check out Dynafit’s ONE boot, similar to TLT5 but wider for guys like us.

    Be sure to bookmark Splitboard.com's Recent Activity page...
    http://splitboard.com/activity-2/

    #662821
    HikeforTurns
    1113 Posts

    While I think this thread is kind of silly, I guess I can see the merit of trying to convert more splitters. Look at Keffler who was convinced and that same year developed his own binding. More hardbooters=more product development. But some folks will probably never convert. So repeating the same arguments is silly. On the TLT 5 note, my feet felt like a million bucks after my longer tour the other day. Something I had never experienced after extensive tours with Driver Xs and Deelux Sparks. My toes stayed noticeably warmer throughtout the day as well, though I am prone to cold toes due to poor circulation.

    Russman, fustercluck, et al. Please feel free to post up videos of yourselves shredding so we can critique your style. Oh wait, I dont give a fuck! 🙂 Right now im diggin on both my setups. Time will tell if I switch permanently. For big days and mountaineering its a no-brainer.

    #662822
    powderjunkie
    1667 Posts

    i may have to switch over to HBs cause i’m getting old and tired of bending down to strap in. 😀

    cool video and a rippin’ rider

    #662823
    ale_capone
    864 Posts

    yeah, but what kind of pumps do you bitchs wear to the mall? 😉

    #662824
    barrows
    1490 Posts

    HFT wrote:

    “Russman, fustercluck, et al. Please feel free to post up videos of yourselves shredding so we can critique your style. Oh wait, I dont give a fuck! “

    LOL… Yup, development only happens if people are willing to consider the possibility. IMO, snowboard development has been held back by closed minded people, both for boots and bindings, and board designs. It could be argued quite successfully that ski design has been much more innovative over the last five years than snowboard design, which with a very few exceptions has been totally stagnant (rocker developments are good, but often use the simplistic approach of just adding rocker to existing designs, and not actually optimizing the entire design to work with the new profile). Snowboarders are way to quick to criticize a new design (unless it is endorsed by their favorite pro hero) with which they actually have no experience.
    Skiers learned to get out of their tiny box by the influence of snowboarding, and now snowboarding seems to be stuck in a little box of its own…

    #662825
    Ecobrad
    2068 Posts

    So if I don’t want to buy a $600 boot to cut on to see if I like it I’m close minded? Maybe I’d be willing to give it a shot if I had super serious mtneering goals or some sort of foot issue. I’m having so much fun in my toy boots that I can find online for less than $200, I just dont see the point. Plus I’m not a good tinkerer, I’d surely thrash the boots while moding them.

    I do predict that there will be some sort of God send innovation in splitboarding in the next couple of years. I’ve seen so much innovation since I started splitting 9 yrs ago with new stuff coming being daylighted all the time. I usually agree with you, Barrows, but not on the lack of innovation. But then again I’m not that into board design so your prolly right on that one.

    #662826
    barrows
    1490 Posts

    @ecobrad wrote:

    So if I don’t want to buy a $600 boot to cut on to see if I like it I’m close minded? Maybe I’d be willing to give it a shot if I had super serious mtneering goals or some sort of foot issue. I’m having so much fun in my toy boots that I can find online for less than $200, I just dont see the point. Plus I’m not a good tinkerer, I’d surely thrash the boots while moding them.

    I do predict that there will be some sort of God send innovation in splitboarding in the next couple of years. I’ve seen so much innovation since I started splitting 9 yrs ago with new stuff coming being daylighted all the time. I usually agree with you, Barrows, but not on the lack of innovation. But then again I’m not that into board design so your prolly right on that one.

    ECO: No (and sorry if it it seemed that way), I am not suggesting that one needs to try a HB system to be open minded. What I am trying to get across is that the (very vocal) snowboarders who diss HB systems (without ever trying a proper set up), and make claims that these systems cannot ride “properly” are the ones being closed minded. It is these kind of attitudes which hamper innovation, as these attitudes leave manufacturers feeling afraid of spending money on R&D of better systems, and that the fashion (vs performance) oriented snowboard market will reject new ideas without actually trying them.
    I agree that in splitboarding there is innovation in bindings, but not in boots (there is still no soft boot with a walk mode which allows reasonable touring flex), or much in boards. Note that the Volant “Spatula” ski was introduced what, 15 years ago or so… It has taken until the last few years for snowboarders to have a similar reverse/reverse design for pow riding. For the most part we are still seeing boards designed for intermediate level freestyle riders at the resort being made into splits. Yes, there are some exceptions: furberg (Daniel had to quit his sponsor and start his own company to get his designs built as his sponsor was unwilling to do it) and Chimera (which has some very innovative protos floating about), and Venture’s pow rider the reverse/reverse Euphoria, but if you look at the ski companies, every single one of them has innovative, purpose designed, backcountry skis with tapered tips and tails, innovative rocker profiles, and long radius or no almost no sidecut designs. Have you seen anything from a snowboard company to even come close to the innovation apparent in DPS’ “Spoon” pow ski, with its convex base at the tip, highly tapered tip and tail, and almost zero sidecut?

    As to costs, you get what you pay for. I see plenty of folks shelling out for $800 Karakoram SL set ups, and BTW: for me, soft boots last one season, at which point they get too soft and broken down to use. A HB will last me 3 seasons of hard use, so the intial cost of entry will be high, the cost of use is quite comparable.

    #662827
    Mansi
    43 Posts

    Hey guys!

    I did a lot of alpin racing with HB when I was younger and also rode in powder with my GS-Board, it`s possible of course, just a question of good technique. But for splitboarding I would never return back to HBs, never.

    But there are 2 things I`d like to see coming as soon as possible:
    1. A softboot with a plastic toe cap, for kicking in hard steep terrain
    2. The Flow-system for splitboards, it would be easier to get in in steep terrain and in my opinion the best setup for progressive freeriding

    www.splitboardtouren.at

    #662828
    barrows
    1490 Posts

    @mansi wrote:

    Hey guys!

    I did a lot of alpin racing with HB when I was younger and also rode in powder with my GS-Board, it`s possible of course, just a question of good technique. But for splitboarding I would never return back to HBs, never.

    But there are 2 things I`d like to see coming as soon as possible:
    1. A softboot with a plastic toe cap, for kicking in hard steep terrain
    2. The Flow-system for splitboards, it would be easier to get in in steep terrain and in my opinion the best setup for progressive freeriding

    Mansi: the boots we ride are nothing like the alpine snowboard boots. Our modded AT boots flex the same as soft boots, and we use them with the same riding techniques and stances. This is what I am trying to get across. The idea that these HB systems are somehow compromised from a riding perspective vs a traditional soft boot set up is just a myth. These setups have nothing in common with alpine free carving or race set ups.

    #662829
    buell
    534 Posts

    @barrows wrote:

    @mansi wrote:

    Hey guys!

    I did a lot of alpin racing with HB when I was younger and also rode in powder with my GS-Board, it`s possible of course, just a question of good technique. But for splitboarding I would never return back to HBs, never.

    But there are 2 things I`d like to see coming as soon as possible:
    1. A softboot with a plastic toe cap, for kicking in hard steep terrain
    2. The Flow-system for splitboards, it would be easier to get in in steep terrain and in my opinion the best setup for progressive freeriding

    Mansi: the boots we ride are nothing like the alpine snowboard boots. Our modded AT boots flex the same as soft boots, and we use them with the same riding techniques and stances. This is what I am trying to get across. The idea that these HB systems are somehow compromised from a riding perspective vs a traditional soft boot set up is just a myth. These setups have nothing in common with alpine free carving or race set ups.

    The modded AT boots are also a small fraction of the weight of alpine carving boots. I love to carve in alpine hardboots on groomers but I would never want to use them on a split either. Modded AT boots on the other hand work incredibly well.

    #662814
    Mansi
    43 Posts

    …I know the developement from the Raichle (Deeluxe) hardboots quite well. About 15-20 years ago they were developed out of standard ski touring boots with a flat base and a walk and a ski option. Than they raised the heels, the boots got brighter (rounder) and higher at the shinbone, they got more buckles etc. It`s clear that you cannot use them in backcountry or for alpinism and that the boots you use are different, my skiing friends use them too. I also think it might be easier to lean forward and to find a balanced position with HBs as they have a hinge, SB not…..At the moment I`m still a HB doubter but maybe I should try it out to feel the difference…..

    www.splitboardtouren.at

    #662830
    barrows
    1490 Posts

    @mansi wrote:

    …I know the developement from the Raichle (Deeluxe) hardboots quite well. About 15-20 years ago they were developed out of standard ski touring boots with a flat base and a walk and a ski option. Than they raised the heels, the boots got brighter (rounder) and higher at the shinbone, they got more buckles etc. It`s clear that you cannot use them in backcountry or for alpinism and that the boots you use are different, my skiing friends use them too. I also think it might be easier to lean forward and to find a balanced position with HBs as they have a hinge, SB not…..At the moment I`m still a HB doubter but maybe I should try it out to feel the difference…..

    I am familar as well. I still have a pair of the original Raichle “Snowboarder” which was the first hard shell boot developed for snowboarding. It actually rode quite well, with a flex pretty comparable to today’s soft boots if used with the softer (pink) tongues. I also has sponsorship from Alpina for a couple of seasons, which developed hard boots for freeriding which also rode pretty well.
    But the AT boots we use now are pounds lighter than these older designs. My TLT5s with mods and without the power strap weighs the same as my pair of Burton Driver Xs.

    #662831
    Mansi
    43 Posts

    I see, you know much better than I, so now I really want to try it out and feel the difference :mrgreen:

    www.splitboardtouren.at

    #662832
    Jason4
    443 Posts

    Mansi- give it a try. I just made the conversion to hard boots and I doubt I’ll go back any time soon. While the boots are ridable the way they are (I can do methods well enough in them and I’ve done a couple back 3’s) I’ll work on modding them to be softer and flex in the right directions. It’s a little unnerving trying to figure out where to cut brand new AT boots but it will have to happen.

    I can post my snowboarding CV too if you need it to trust that I know what I’m doing on a board…

    #662833
    summersgone
    820 Posts

    How do you “try out” the system without dropping over a grand in gear? That’s the biggest detractor of the whole idea for someone who’s been riding softboots their whole life. I get the idea of hardbooting for touring, but I’m hesitant to drop a bunch of money on something I’d need to mod, and hopefully it works on the down how I expect. Its a large leap of faith, as you all know for a grand for something you’ve never tried. I know Keffler’s Phantom system is slick as hell though and its cool to see the innovation coming from him. I’m still waiting to hear what a year of touring does with some of the people I know ride the same type of terrain as I do and trying hardboots this year (cough cough thanks HFT).

    I certainly like and get the idea, but its hard to take that leap. But, if anyone with a 27.0 foot with TLT5s and Phantoms wants to come to Silverton area for some tours, I’d love to try some out. :thumpsup:

Viewing 20 posts - 41 through 60 (of 132 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.