Jason: As far as I am concerned, a Method can be done with either the Lien or Melon grab, and still be a Method. I prefer the Lien grab position, as it allows a better body position in the air, with a nice arched back, and also allows for boning out the rear leg if one has enough air time. My archetype for good snowboarding Methods is CK (RIP), and he almost always grabbed them Lien.
But hey, it is snowboarding, and, ultimately it is about personal perspective and style. It is certainly fine if one rider prefers to grab one way or another, and anyone who says a certain way is bad form is really only expressing their own personal opinion-this is why judging skateboarding or snowboarding can be so controversial. For example, I remember the rivalry between Chritian Hosoi and Tony Hawk. Personally, I dislike the way Tony Hawk skates, to me he has an awkward style which looks terrible, and I find Hosoi to be the opposite. I have seen many contest runs where I think Christian should have won easily, but the judges gave the win to Tony; apparently they were just counting how many times he spun around…
But! My opinion does not mean that Tony Hawk is a bad skateboarder, I would never suggest that.
What I love about sports like skateboarding and snowboarding is that are progressive, and individual, and that there are many different ways to do them. Unlike gymnastics, or figure skating, where the “right” way is almost totally defined, and there is not nearly as much room for personal expression or creativity. I really hope that our sport remains this way, and never gets to the point of having perfect definitions of the “right” way to do everything, that would be so stagnant and boring.

@barrows wrote:

Jason: As far as I am concerned, a Method can be done with either the Lien or Melon grab, and still be a Method. I prefer the Lien grab position, as it allows a better body position in the air, with a nice arched back, and also allows for boning out the rear leg if one has enough air time. My archetype for good snowboarding Methods is CK (RIP), and he almost always grabbed them Lien.
But hey, it is snowboarding, and, ultimately it is about personal perspective and style. It is certainly fine if one rider prefers to grab one way or another, and anyone who says a certain way is bad form is really only expressing their own personal opinion-this is why judging skateboarding or snowboarding can be so controversial. For example, I remember the rivalry between Chritian Hosoi and Tony Hawk. Personally, I dislike the way Tony Hawk skates, to me he has an awkward style which looks terrible, and I find Hosoi to be the opposite. I have seen many contest runs where I think Christian should have won easily, but the judges gave the win to Tony; apparently they were just counting how many times he spun around…
But! My opinion does not mean that Tony Hawk is a bad skateboarder, I would never suggest that.
What I love about sports like skateboarding and snowboarding is that are progressive, and individual, and that there are many different ways to do them. Unlike gymnastics, or figure skating, where the “right” way is almost totally defined, and there is not nearly as much room for personal expression or creativity. I really hope that our sport remains this way, and never gets to the point of having perfect definitions of the “right” way to do everything, that would be so stagnant and boring.

I agree completely.

P.S. Hardboot airs are weak… 😆

@802smuggler wrote:

Thank you Pedro for grounding us. It’s been FAR to long since I’ve seen a monkey grabbing some ta ta’s around here.

My pleasure! It always hard in October at sb.com; lots of stoke and not much snow!

@aksltxlt wrote:

This is what I like to see in a hardboot

It just looks so natural (on a chick) ha ha

THREAD WINNER GOES TO AKSLTXLT!

:rock:

you cant do that in hard boots!

went up to the mountain and it was raining, so we jumped off shit instead of splitting.

#notpostholing

I gotta give props to Barrows since he brings up a good point that I’ve always (for some reason deeply) cared about
@barrows wrote:

To me, nothing going straight is an Indy, Indy’s require a pool,quarter pipe, or half pipe and a 180 degree turn in the air for re-entry.

@barrows wrote:

For clarity, a rear hand grab between the feet, whether tuck knee or not, going off a straight jump/drop, was referred to as a Frontside Straight Air back in the day. I always resist calling any straight air an Indy, as I would consider that disrespectful to the skaters the like of Duane Peters, who made the Indy a much more committing move than the standard backside air of the day, especially when performed in an environment like the original Combi Pool in Upland.

And I would like to add that an Indy Air is and always has been and can ONLY be a BACKSIDE AIR, the term Indy grab should have never been brought into the picture! So anyone pointing out Indy grab on a straight air picture still doesn’t get it! Learn your roots people! Been growing up on video games? Since wiki is telling me this fact that I was previously unaware of: The term indy grab may also be misapplied to any aerial in which the rider grabs the toe side of his board with their trailing hand (as in snowboarding). This confusion is partly due to the name’s being applied to all such grabs in the Tony Hawk’s Pro Skater video game.

On anything else than a backside rotation it is simple a frontside grab. :banghead: :banghead:

It is a misunderstanding in snowboarding that never seems to die out!

As well as misnaming tricks in general. It’s hilarious now watching the surfers (and more so the commentators) trying to figure it out all over again as they are taking to the air.

Well fustercluck. They still felt good, didn’t they?

I grew up a vert skater in the mid eighties and became a pipe rider in my early snowboard days. And I’m just a way too detail oriented fool who jumps at each opportunity discussing this. Because we probably all shouldn’t give a shit and just ride more and talk less and enjoy flying, whatever the damn grab is called.

I have been fortunate this season. John Keffler has let me demo a set of Phantoms to get feedback and see what i thought. Even if you’re a soft boot rider that thinks they would never want to ride this set up, i would think that anyone would be curious how the Phantom/TLT5’s ride. I would also think that any snowboarder around would be able to appreciate the Phantom design. The quality of craftsmanship, Johns design and all the features that come with this set up are amazing! I could go on and on about the advantages this set up offers. If anyone is interested, i could line those advantages out. Things like the walk mode, the ability to set the Phantoms up on a solid, factory splt or DIY, however many lbs of weight it saves over a conventional set up, how easy it is to switch between boards if you have a extra set of cleats, etc.

Vail pipe on the Phantoms1-16-14 by travis young 424, on Flickr

This shot was taken yesterday from my buddies IPhone ( i wish it was a clearer shot). My first time riding the Phantoms on a solid board and my 3rd run in the pipe this year. Style is what you make of it! After 28ish years of riding, i have been throwing these old school methods forever. Yes old school style, I am 41 years old and at least I can still get out of a 22′ pipe. I wanted to post this just to say that i think the Phantom/TLT5 set up is worthy of any kind of riding that i would want to do and that Airs w style on this set up are not limited at all. I know that this isnt really relevant to backcountry splitboarding, no halfpipes in the BC. Halfpipe riding is the ultimate freestyle to me. I want to keep my skills in the pipe. I think it translates to my overall riding style, BC or wherever.

I have been riding my Burton soft set up with Ride intuition boots for resort riding and I also have a set of Spark R&D tesla afterburners to compare against. I can honestly say i am now a complete Phantom convert. There are certain quality’s to how the Phantoms ride that i now prefer to softy’s. I do think the Spark tesla’s are pretty much flawless, but like i said I now prefer the Phantoms in all conditions!

The future will be a split specific TLT5 like boot. We need to have adjustable forward lean, adjustable lateral flex and my biggest complain would be the lack of a toe buckle. I feel like i need a toe buckle. I like to be able to put pressure on my toes when riding but release that pressure when i want. For a boot designed for skiing, the TLTs work really well for snowboarding. The future is bright!

John Keffler is a really cool guy. He made these bindings because that’s what he envisioned himself riding with. The demand for this is going to grow as more riders see how the Phantoms perform. John is onto such a cool thing right now! Garage built, homegrown Colorado style. His Karma is going to take him to amazing places and to meet amazing people! I would say that John Keffler is now one of the Greatest Snowboard inventors in history with his Phantoms! They are truly a work of art. Cheers and the future of splitting and snowboarding is here

Come together, and Keffler we have to go shred together soon!

Travis

This is what a rad quiver looks like!

Phantom set ups by travis young 424, on Flickr

I bet they work well on a single board as well