Home › Forums › DIY and Mods › first DIY: redommendation on sealing the inside cut please
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- June 19, 2012 at 12:28 am #577047
ruapehu_explorerParticipantI’ve read into all the options for how to waterproof after the cut, from DIY edges (not enough skill to do that one) to urethane and epoxy and ptex-ing in a sidewall.
I had just about decided on doing a ptex sidewall on the inner cut (based on this old post: viewtopic.php?f=16&t=6012 ) until I was pretty much advised not to do it by a local board shop’s workshop. I was asking around for the cost of a shop doing the filling since I don’t have access to a ptex gun, and the shop worker said ptex only bonds well to ptex, and that some well applied layers of marine grade epoxy would be more durable, bond to the wood better, and easier to touch up. He also recommended drilling some small holes into the core to allow the epoxy to soak in better…
The snow the DIY board will mostly see ranges from very firm to sometimes a bit of fresh on top of very firm and very wet in the spring (new zealand volcano conditions), so would a good epoxy be strong enough for firm stuff consistently on the uphill? Or would the ptex work out better than the guy thinks?
For epoxy I’m looking at the g/flex 650 everyone recommends, but that stuff is kind of expensive in New Zealand (NZ$50 versus the US$15 in the states, so nearly triple after converting). How far does the single pack (4oz of resin and 4oz of hardener) stretch? Would that be enough for all the drill sealing and inner cut seals for 2 DIY boards, or only 1?
Thanks heaps for your help in advance, much appreciated
BijanJune 19, 2012 at 1:54 am #657275chrisNZParticipantUrethane works well soaks in. I wouldnt ptex it just cracks falls out makes a mess. Epoxy works just use normal epoxy. Apply more urethane/epoxie at the end of the season. Ive used PU filler as well tricky to get a nice finish with no air bubbles but its flexible bonds to wood and metal and can be sanded. Stanley construction PU black tube at placemakers $16 you need to remove some core with a knife if you use PU.
June 19, 2012 at 3:01 am #657276PedroDelfuegoParticipantJune 20, 2012 at 5:17 am #657277hoglordParticipantI have used both g-flex and varathene to cure the inside edge and have found them both to work extremely well. both are super solid and bond amazingly to wood cores. Another product I have used is black epoxy spray paint. It’s ultra strong, cheap and easy to apply. I use black and that allows me to see any cracks or scratches on the edge. I then uses simple lacquer nail polish for touch up if necessary.
The 4oz g-flex should cover both boards, just try not to waste too much during application. I use a voile scraper to spread the product into the holes, and the same tool to level it out and take the excess to the next hole. This makes it easier to clean up afterward and minimizes waste.
A few ultra thin coats of varathane on the finished edge with a fine sand in between coats seems to be ultra solid but it is pretty time consuming. One or two of the g-flex is probably stronger, less time consuming but more expensive. This does allow you to place a clean veneer strip in there though. The spray paint is cheap and ultra fast, and pretty fin strong, but will require more maintenance. :thumpsup:
June 21, 2012 at 9:15 am #657278ruapehu_explorerParticipantok. I don’t think I’ll be able to find the ever-popular Minwax Helmsman ‘spar-urethane’ down in NZ, but is that stuff just a varnish designed for marine use? I looked it up, and I read somewhere that the ‘spar’ in its name is a marketing term signifying it can be used on sailboats (which have spars) in marine environments. Would an oil based marine grade varnish (such as this: http://www.bondall.com/monocel/monocel_gold.html or http://www.cabots.co.nz/exterior/timber_ext_varnish.asp or http://www.productspec.net/products/6414/wattyl-nz/estapol-exterior-clear-varnish.aspx) that be the same type of thing?
cheers
June 21, 2012 at 11:26 am #657279Matt WoodParticipant^ They are all similar products from different manufacturers. I use Olympic spar urethane. An exterior rated Tung oil works well too, it penetrates deeper and hardens the wood.
July 2, 2012 at 8:25 am #657280ruapehu_explorerParticipantwould there be any reason not to do a few coats of urethane to waterproof it, and then 1 or 2 light coats of epoxy just to give a bit more damage protection? is the epoxy going to bond to the urethaned surface as well as naked wood?
cheers
July 6, 2012 at 12:01 am #657281sdmarkusParticipant@ruapehu_explorer wrote:
would there be any reason not to do a few coats of urethane to waterproof it, and then 1 or 2 light coats of epoxy just to give a bit more damage protection? is the epoxy going to bond to the urethaned surface as well as naked wood?
cheers
That’s exactly what I’ve done and it seems to be holding up nicely. The epoxy on top of the urethane is pretty bomber, I don’t see a downside at this point :thumpsup:
August 13, 2012 at 10:36 am #657282ChewbaccaParticipantI sealed my 1st DIY Split with Marine Vanish, it just took ages to dry properly.
The next one I took forum memer “burton” from Germany word, that he just waxes his inside edges.
So I roughend up the inside edge with 80 or 100 gauge sandpaper (the rough surface helps with the wax absorption) and waxed the inside edge with base wax.
I thought there are enough outdoor wood products that rely on waxing (decks, furniture).
Now everytime the base gets some wax, the inside edges do as well.
It was really time saving AND held up so far (1st. season).
I was also concerned but so far its worked out really well.
August 16, 2012 at 5:17 am #657283ruapehu_explorerParticipantinteresting idea on the wax. i’ve ended up using a friend’s dremel tool to cut a channel in the center cut and drip in epoxy to make a sidewall.
September 20, 2012 at 9:07 am #657284BobGnarlyParticipantHave you ridden the board yet? How did the epoxy sidewall handle being flexed?
September 20, 2012 at 11:54 pm #657285ruapehu_explorerParticipant@BobGnarly wrote:
Have you ridden the board yet? How did the epoxy sidewall handle being flexed?
so far it seems good. my first experience on the board sucked-the ride down was rock solid at the top and chunky re-freeze at the bottom. After that I had the edges re-sharpened (not that it would have helped on that stuff) and from there I’ve gotten more used to it and the slider plates and I’m liking it all. I even got to borrow my friends Sparks and the board felt so much better on the way day. I’m definitely getting myself split specific bindings. The epoxy seems to flex fine, maybe even add a small amount of resistance and lightly stiffen it back a bit, but not that much.
October 1, 2012 at 4:06 pm #657287barrowsParticipantRemember: your entire board is layed up with epoxy; quality epoxy will flex perfectly well, and a properly, epoxy coated sidewall will be more durable than just abot any other approach, short of laying in an inside edge and true sidewall.
Here is what I would do: Use high quality stuff for this, the thicker viscosity epoxies you mention here are not the best choice for doing this, you want an epoxy which is thinner, and formulated for doing layups. My favorite is WEST System 105. Then, get some WEST 423 Graphite Powder (this is basically carbon fiber powder). Sand your sidewall perfectly square and true, using a 90 degree sanding block, and about 60 or 80 grit paper. Do not sand it using finer grit, as the epoxy needs the rougher surface to make a really good bond with, but make sure it is true and square. Then spread on 4-5 coats of 105 epoxy mixed with 423 Graphite powder. Read and follow the instructions from WEST Systems, they have a really good manual available for download from their site (also some informative videos, watch them). You can put following coats on without sanding, if you do it before a full cure of the previous coat happens (see WEST manual).
Then let everything cure really well, a couple of days at 70 degrees F or higher. After you get a full cure, sand the new sidewall smooth with 220 then 400 then 600 grit sandpaper. 600 is fine for final sanding, which should be done wet. Do not try and coat this surface with any other treatment, urethanes and such do not bond well, or cure well to this surface. But do rub some wax into it before riding.
The epoxy/graphite sidewall will be absolutely bombproof when done right, will look pro, and, is super slippery and will not ice up ever. This approach is a bit more work, but the results can be something you are really proud of, will protect your core from damage, and will offer superb performance.I used this approach on my furberg to cover the uni carbon I added to the inner edge, and it came out great.
October 1, 2012 at 9:02 pm #657289ZudeParticipantI’ve used spar urethane and it works ok, i need to reapply every season and fill the scratches and deep gashes with G-flex. Barrows technique sounds like the most bomber way to go…
October 1, 2012 at 9:19 pm #657290ZudeParticipantFrom what i read on West’s sight carbon powder is only for coloring and from their wording seems to have little effect on the strength of the epoxy. This season i might just go with G-Flex (i like the carbon tape idea though).
October 1, 2012 at 10:23 pm #657291barrowsParticipant@Zude wrote:
From what i read on West’s sight carbon powder is only for coloring and from their wording seems to have little effect on the strength of the epoxy. This season i might just go with G-Flex (i like the carbon tape idea though).
I think you may need to look a little deeper into the WEST site. The powder I referenced is used to provide a highly durable, and super slick low friction finish. It is often used on the rudders and centerboards of racing sailboats to reduce friction. Check out the videos as well, there is a cool video on the site of a guy laying up a skimboard using WEST materials. He coats the edges of the skimboard with an epoxy/graphite powder mixture in order to increase the durability.
G-Flex is not a good epoxy for coating purposes, as it is a high viscosity epoxy. For coating, one should use WEST 105, which is a much lower viscosity product. Take the time to really study the WEST system manual, it has a wealth of information.October 2, 2012 at 1:24 am #657288PedroDelfuegoParticipantI stand by my varathene / urethane recommendation. Easy, waterproof, durable and cheap. Available in brush-on or spray-on. :thumpsup:
October 2, 2012 at 3:41 am #657292ZudeParticipantLooked at the 105 epoxy Barrows, this does look like the stuff to use, still need to read up on the “slick” carbon, but i like the sound of your process.
October 2, 2012 at 7:18 am #657293burtonParticipantsorry guys … but turn the time 100 years back…
the first skiers have no sidewall s no uhmpe ore abs ore xxx kunstoffmaterial.
the have only firnesoil, wax and good wood as core material.the first years im my snowboard building – abs sidewalls , pu between the belts…. and … and some difrent epoxid s with glassfiber rovings.
the best sidewall for a snowboard is a wood sidewall as , esche . the wood is lighter than kunststoff
and better to bonding to the core….. thats are facts.the picture show a core in the bonding prozess with esche side walls.
all guy have fear for wood as sidewalls – the are stupid….. i wos 4 years stupid :thumpsup:
Inside and outside sidewall s are no problem… this pictures shows a insidewall with 700mm insideedges… the board is made in the year 2008 – 4 years of riding and walking with short inside edges and wood side wall s. next step is 100 % wood from Tip to Tail
a report ” DIY Seitenwangen versiegeln” wirten in german with some pictures:
the shows to cut, and primer with PU , and waxing all time with base serive
http://www.wildschnee.de/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=139&Itemid=277cheers markus – and no stupid comants about my wirten
October 2, 2012 at 7:36 pm #657294ZudeParticipantNice work Burton, the steel edge does absorb a lot of punishment though.. An impact resistant inside edge is what i’m after, until i learn to inlay edge i’ll go with something like Barrows method.
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