- February 10, 2016 at 12:43 am #789287Eirikverlo@gmail.comParticipant
Thanks! Will definately try the soft tongue then. How much have you filed down the locking mode? Seems you can file down quite a bit if you use a tongueFebruary 10, 2016 at 2:36 pm #789321JimyParticipant
I filed almost as far up as @barrows photo from his initial how-to post, but I don’t ride with as much forward lean, so the lower part of mine is in the upright slot parallel to the plastic.
knuckle draggerFebruary 13, 2016 at 7:21 am #789378SkateBananasParticipant
Is anyone using something like a piece of rubber in the forward lean slot to get a more progressive lean rather than all or nothing?February 25, 2016 at 3:00 pm #789860
Has anyone had issue with heel lift, specifically with toeside turns in either their tlt6 or tlt5’s? And how did you remedy it? @barrows?February 26, 2016 at 3:29 pm #789896SkateBananasParticipantMarch 11, 2016 at 2:32 am #790343
I have finished modding my TLT6’s and they are riding great.Thanks to everybody co contributed to this thread….it works!.
I have pretty much copied what everybody else has done with just a couple tweaks.Here goes:
-For the forward flex i filed the alu brackets from the “most forward lean” postition.You can always file down the bottom part if it is too much.After testing i filed about 0.5mm on my front foot to raise the position a bit.
To increase the forward travel available i rounded both the top of the alu bracket and the top of the alu cuff lever insert.This gives you a lot more travel,almost to the point where the cuff will press on the shoe part of the boot.
To soften the cuff i copied the idea of lowering the cuff buckle (non lever part) to reduce tension on the cuff top.I added a plastic layer (from an old ski boot) to make room for an additional screw to spread the loads as the boot plastic here is very thin…
I did not get the green tongues so i softened the black ones by removing 1 cm along both sides.Good scissors cut them fine,sand the edges and you are done in minutes.They give a nice progressive resistance which i like.
I put a bit of plastic tubing hanging from a string on the cuff levers,so i can close the cuff without locking the walk mode.Million ways to skin this cat ,this one works nicely with gloves on.A pant cuff will do in a pinch too…
The initial riding impression was a bit “raw” compared to softboots (Flow Helios),not harsh or restrictive at all but like a lot more info was coming through my feet from the board.
This feeling is very addictive,like driving a sports car vs a cadillac.
I have tested them on Phantom bindings and K2 Joy driver 162 (front foot +26,back foot -4) and it carves,ollies and rides switch wonderfully on the groomed.Really happy with the setup.
Next week i hope to ride some soft stuff on an Amplid Milligram :).March 21, 2016 at 1:31 pm #790679
Anybody had probems with the walk mode lever popping open during riding? I´ve had it happen once last year on slope, which I did suspect back then to have happened due to a pant cuff interfering with the lever. But now it happened again, both feet at the same time, at the slope, while making a bit sloppy heelside brake/turn. the slope was quite choppy and bam, both levers opened.. Today I was riding steeps and had the front foot lever open while landing a jump to my heel edge over a bergschrund to an icy slope.
I´m quite harsh on my heel edge, I also broke a lean adjust on my older softboot solidboard bindings. Sparks were fine though the 4 years I used them.
This is quite scary as the consequences in no fall terrain might be fatal.March 22, 2016 at 12:51 am #790700
I have used them only for a week of resort snowboarding plus one splitboarding day.
I ride the cuff very loose and i have not had that problem.
I would check that there is no interference from the pant cuff as you transition from toeside to heelside.
As a last resort i would fashion some kind of cuff lever safety lock that would keep it closed when riding,something that was not much of a hassle to do/undo.A lenght of paracord tied to the lever tip and attached to the cuff with velcro maybe…
I might try something like this just as a preventive measure,loosing back support could be fatal in a bad spot.March 23, 2016 at 1:35 pm #790736
I suspect I´m loading the spoiler before the middle piece with the lean adjuster on fast hard hits. This could cause the opening of the walk mode. So, the solution might be to cut off the spoiler to the same level as the middle piece. Some people seem to have done it already, as it is quite a bit taller than a standard soft boot.. I´ll see about this, quite a big mod with no chance of returning :/March 24, 2016 at 4:21 pm #790764
I have tried to replicate what you describe at home (spoiler moving before inner piece) but i have not been able to.Neither with my foot in the boot or by hand.Not saying it is impossible but unless your calves are very thin at the bottom and bulge a lot at the spoiler height i cannot see this happening easily.
But you have me worried 🙂
So i have made a jury rigged lever safety that doubles as closed cuff & walk mode…it is kinda crude but i was in a hurry.
It will not help you if the problem is as you describe though.March 25, 2016 at 4:28 am #790771
Yeah it only happens on very hard hits, I can´t reproduce it by hand or foot at home. Probably on these instances my calves are very tensioned, aka bulge quite hard quite high. It’s also a riding style issue, I kinda pussy out on groomers when it gets bumby/too high speed and typically take speed out during heelside turns. Same for drops, I tend to land on heelside, though it would be better to land on toes.. But it doesn´t remove the issue that this can happen to someone else too.
I´ve been also thinking about riggin a safety cord for the Phantom levers.. I don´t really see them opening, but weird things happen. They might open for example while traversing toe side on very steep soft snow, if the lever nags on a rock or something similar :/ On the other hand the cord might just nag easier..March 28, 2016 at 9:16 am #790837Jason4Participant
You guys should check out the latest mods that John at Phantom has done to his TLT6s. He’s going to the next level.
Check Facebook or Instagram.April 19, 2016 at 10:58 am #791408
I have removed the original forward/back lean alu limiter and replaced it with a DIY bottom only alu piece.
This increases the forward flex pretty much to the boots limit and it lets me get down low on toeside carve initiations,i like it.
I have ridden like this for a couple days,no signs of harm to any part of the boot so far.
January 12, 2017 at 2:37 pm #798309shadParticipant
Anybody done this yet? I am not especially handy. Trying to decide if I can handle it or not.January 20, 2017 at 8:53 pm #798841
I went for it last night actually. I mentioned in another thread that I had been wanting to do something like this for a while but was nervous to be the guinea pig on making mods. A lot of people were cutting down the cuff to allow their knees to come together more but I didn’t like that because I thought it would also cause the cuff to dig into my leg more. I wanted the cuff to flex with my leg instead.
I’ll concede that I took some design cues from John at Phantom. I was thinking of cutting away some slots (either horizontal or vertical) side by side in the cuff with heavily rounded corners to allow the boot cuff to deflect or flex laterally more than the stock boot even when the same amount of force is applied. Once I saw, John post on Facebook about some of the experimental mods he was testing last season it got me thinking he had the right idea by cutting circles in the cuff.
There are several reasons this is more elegant than what I was thinking.
1 – Holes are way easier to cut and replicate a pattern from boot to boot. This makes for symmetrical flexing on both boots.
2 – The larger radius hole, the less likely a crack will form at an edge and propagate out till it fails. This is an engineering principle called Fatigue.
So after I saw the posts show up on Phantom’s Facebook page I started to get serious.
Disclaimer: I have TLT5 Mountain boots with a TLT6 liner. I felt it was still applicable to post here because of the similarities between the boots. The primary differences, except for the forward lean plate, are not relevant or affected by the mods I’ve done. Also, way more people have the TLT6 so hopefully this will benefit more people.
Measure twice cut once
I started by measuring out the spacing and placement of where I wanted my holes. I wanted to be sure than I didn’t make any of my holes too close to an edge, or the cuff hinge point. I think I kept a minimum of 0.5″ between the edges of any holes. I wrote my measurements down in my picture in case anyone wanted to know. Make sure you space the holes well so you have room to add more later if you need more flex.
Medial Side: 4 – 1.25″ Holes
I put 3 holes on the lateral side of the boot as well. I left room for more holes here as well but after my test ride I won’t be adding any more.
Lateral Side 3 – 1.25″ Holes
Again, Phantom’s recommendation of using the hooked blade worked amazingly well. You can find them in the utility knife section at Home Depot. The are a “Roofer’s” blade. It fits into any box cutter. I think I got a pack of 5 for like $5. Here is the finished product.
• Immediately on my tour this morning, I noticed that my lateral flex had changed. Sidehilling, on some hard snow I noticed I had to lean into the hill more to get the same edge hold relative to before I cut the holes. My legs couldn’t be as upright as before. I didn’t have to lean in as much as I do in my soft boots setup but I did notice a difference. This is good reason to cut 1 or 2 holes at a time to slowly dial in the flex. Someone asked so I thought I’d edit this post to say I had the upper cuff buckle completely open. I may try the trick others have posted about to buckle the cuff but leave the forward lean unlocked to see if that helps in sketchy areas.
• Also, because of the increased flex, I noticed that occasionally the ankle guard (Circled in orange), dug into my leg a little. I will be cutting away some of that material until that doesn’t happen anymore.
• Downhill performance was awesome, It felt totally natural and less harsh than before. The snow was mostly powder on the northerly aspect and it felt just like my soft boot setup. on the exit we wrapped around to west that had been sun affected and more crusty with trees and it felt just as good. Nimble transitions, easy to drive. This really damped things out. Regarding the downhill performance, I don’t regret this change at all.
• Phantom suggests a few other types of mods like cutting slits in the lower boot on either side of the hinge point. This may be necessary for smaller people but I won’t be doing it. I got all the flex I need. I’ll update as I ride in other snow conditions and get more experience on them.
• I think what this comes down to is that you have to compromise a little. For skinning, you want a laterally stiff boot for great edge hold, but on the downhill you want less laterally stiff boot for maneuverability. You just got to pick your priority and change it a little at a time till its just right.
• The uphill advantages of AT Ski boots are awesome though.
+ More natural stride and ankle articulation.
+ More comfortable than soft boots on the uphill.
+ Lighter weight since boots are lighter and the bindings are in the backpack.
– The biggest drawback I see is that at least for me, my TLT6 C-One liners are definitely not as warm as the soft boots. I’ve been using this on cold days that seems to help.
• I started with 4 holes on the medial side and 3 on the lateral side of the boot but I would maybe recommend starting with only 1 or 2 at a time and then go for a ride to make sure you don’t make your boot too soft and flexy. Especially if you are a larger person.
• Make sure you clean the holes well with the roofer’s blade. Try to make sure that you didn’t make any deep nicks or gouges because this is where cracks can form over time. This is pretty tough, thick plastic so I wouldn’t expect any issues.
• For reference, I’m 6’3″, 205lbs, so I can produce a lot of lateral torque on the cuff. Smaller people may need additional mods to get it where they want. Heavier people may want less.
Other Mods I’ve Done
I did the typical forward lean plate mod as well. Last year I ground the plate down and up because there was initially too much “Highback” and not enough forward flex. I can’t remember how much I ground it but I have it written down here somewhere. I do remember that each boot was ground differently according to my stance. Front 27°, Back 0°.
FYI – I don’t ride with the removable tongues in place.
Wow that might be the longest post I’ve ever made.January 21, 2017 at 2:29 am #798855
Great post WhitePine.
When you traversed with your softened TLT’S:
Did you use a fully unlocked cuff (open top buckle)?
or the “locked cuff+unlocked walk mode” trick? (closed top buckle but not engaging the fwrd lean lock)
The full Phantom mod makes me drool because it looks like it will definitely make the boot very surfy in sideflex,but i am wary of traversing in Euro conditions with a too soft boot.
We are skinning on 125mm wide “skis” and it often feels sketchy even on a non modified TLT6.
I have just removed the rivets on my TLT6’S and i am planning how much to soften them.
I am a fan of the “snowsurf” style of riding that seems to be spearheaded by the Japanese.
See the Snowsurf movie trailer here https://youtu.be/JPC0NEvvnZ0
My fave softboot carver Hiroyuki Akahori
And the supercool Korua Shapes guys
What is pretty obvious in all these riders is that they have a big amount of motion available in their ankles,both forward and sideways flex.
My forward flex is perfect now on the TLT6.
I have removed the extra tongue and i use only the bottom part of the alu backstop,and there are only 8mm of plastic at the top.Been riding like this for quite a bit and no problems at all.
But lateral flex is not so good,and it is very important to be able to move your knees sideways in this style.Mostly the back knee inwards.
I am going to start by lowering the lower boot ankle area a bit.
Not decided wether to make a couple holes on the inside of the cuff or add “flex cuts” on the lower boot.
Maybe the answer will be a 3 part splitboard like these http://splitboard-power.fr/categorie-produit/splitboard/
or the Salomon 3 part model.January 21, 2017 at 7:07 pm #798905
Marc – I updated my post above to include that information. I had the buckle completely open, I haven’t tried the trick you are talking about yet. I wouldn’t go hog wild with Phantom’s mod suggestions all at once though. You may regret it depending on how much flex you like and how big you are. That being said, some of the mods they suggest are easier to do with the cuff removed. Since it sounds like you already bought the buckle kit, before you install it I would probably do the mods in this order:
1 – Holes in the side of the cuffs – Keep adding holes till the flex is right. If you’ve added all the holes you feel like you safely can and need more flex go to the next mod.
2 – Buckle Mod and if you feel like you did need more flex, do the next one at the same time.
3 – Slots in the lower boot cuff. It will be easiest to do this while you are doing the Buckle mod cause you’ll have the cuff detached. Then you don’t have to drill out the rivets and redo it.
EDIT: It sounds like, based on Buell’s experience you could do the following order instead:
1 – Buckle Mods and slots on either side of the hinge point. If you do this first you could always add more flex to the cuff as needed without having to remove the buckle again.
2 – Cut holes in the cuff to add more flex and damping.
That snowsurf video was pretty cool. I went on a tour today with about 8-10 inches of fresh and one of the scenes reminded me of one of my runs today. Because of the added flex, I was able to manual waaaay easier like a couple of the guys in the trailer. I couldn’t do that very easily before.
Today I didn’t notice the ankle guard digging into my leg but it might have been because of the softer snow conditions. I’m still not regretting the decision. Also, I haven’t really noticed snow getting into my shell between the liner. At least it hasn’t been a problem yet.January 21, 2017 at 7:23 pm #798907buellParticipant
extended slots in lower cuff Photo from Phantom Instagram
Cutting the slots into the lower shell plastic on both sides of the pivot point to below the pivot point will greatly increase your lateral/medial flex. The slots on the boots I am riding are cut to 1″ below the pivot point. Flexing the boots in the house, I thought it might be too much, but I have not noticed any issues riding.
I tour with an open upper buckle, so this mod does not affect my sidehilling ability.January 22, 2017 at 5:43 am #798936
Ok,thx WhitePine and Buell.
I have lowered the lower boot ankle guards by 1cm on both sides and i have cut slots.
Only on the inside(medial?) and not too deep (11’5cm from bootsole).
Tested this morning at indoor ski (sad i know,but great for testing 🙂 and it feels very good.
Going to cut the same depth on the outside and deepen the inside to the same height as the pivot.
January 22, 2017 at 2:16 pm #798968neniParticipant
I’m new to AT boot splitboarding, got the new TLT6 with Phantoms/Dynafit bindings and did the first tour with them today. Mixed feelings… ascent was simply brilliant; it’s night and day. So I really would like to love this AT system, but… the downhill was pretty painful. Felt like a bench vice trying to crush shins n calves… I reckon I can improve this harsh sensation by modifying the fwd lean aluminium plate, so there’s more give, but the too much too rigid fwd lean actually buggers me more:
The hind boot rim bites directly into my calves making any heelside turn or – even worse – traverses PITA. (I’m a girl… my calve muscles are lower attached on the leg that those of guys).
I’ve seen many mods mentioned in this thread which increase the fwd lean; but is there anything to decrease the lean?
Or has anyone ever cut off the upper boot rim? The entire upper part holding the power strap. What’s your take, would this improve the calve bite issue but cause other issues? (I’m bit nervous to just cut as I’m new to AT boots and mods)
Jones Solution 152 / Phantom Alpha / Dynafit TLT6 Mountain CL
(Spark Afterburner / Deeluxe XV)
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.