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I have finished modding my TLT6’s and they are riding great.Thanks to everybody co contributed to this thread….it works!.
I have pretty much copied what everybody else has done with just a couple tweaks.Here goes:
-For the forward flex i filed the alu brackets from the “most forward lean” postition.You can always file down the bottom part if it is too much.After testing i filed about 0.5mm on my front foot to raise the position a bit.
To increase the forward travel available i rounded both the top of the alu bracket and the top of the alu cuff lever insert.This gives you a lot more travel,almost to the point where the cuff will press on the shoe part of the boot.
To soften the cuff i copied the idea of lowering the cuff buckle (non lever part) to reduce tension on the cuff top.I added a plastic layer (from an old ski boot) to make room for an additional screw to spread the loads as the boot plastic here is very thin…
I did not get the green tongues so i softened the black ones by removing 1 cm along both sides.Good scissors cut them fine,sand the edges and you are done in minutes.They give a nice progressive resistance which i like.
I put a bit of plastic tubing hanging from a string on the cuff levers,so i can close the cuff without locking the walk mode.Million ways to skin this cat ,this one works nicely with gloves on.A pant cuff will do in a pinch too…
The initial riding impression was a bit “raw” compared to softboots (Flow Helios),not harsh or restrictive at all but like a lot more info was coming through my feet from the board.
This feeling is very addictive,like driving a sports car vs a cadillac.
I have tested them on Phantom bindings and K2 Joy driver 162 (front foot +26,back foot -4) and it carves,ollies and rides switch wonderfully on the groomed.Really happy with the setup.
Next week i hope to ride some soft stuff on an Amplid Milligram :).I have removed the original forward/back lean alu limiter and replaced it with a DIY bottom only alu piece.
This increases the forward flex pretty much to the boots limit and it lets me get down low on toeside carve initiations,i like it.
I have ridden like this for a couple days,no signs of harm to any part of the boot so far.
I went for it last night actually. I mentioned in another thread that I had been wanting to do something like this for a while but was nervous to be the guinea pig on making mods. A lot of people were cutting down the cuff to allow their knees to come together more but I didn’t like that because I thought it would also cause the cuff to dig into my leg more. I wanted the cuff to flex with my leg instead.
I’ll concede that I took some design cues from John at Phantom. I was thinking of cutting away some slots (either horizontal or vertical) side by side in the cuff with heavily rounded corners to allow the boot cuff to deflect or flex laterally more than the stock boot even when the same amount of force is applied. Once I saw, John post on Facebook about some of the experimental mods he was testing last season it got me thinking he had the right idea by cutting circles in the cuff.
There are several reasons this is more elegant than what I was thinking.
1 – Holes are way easier to cut and replicate a pattern from boot to boot. This makes for symmetrical flexing on both boots.
2 – The larger radius hole, the less likely a crack will form at an edge and propagate out till it fails. This is an engineering principle called Fatigue.So after I saw the posts show up on Phantom’s Facebook page I started to get serious.
Disclaimer: I have TLT5 Mountain boots with a TLT6 liner. I felt it was still applicable to post here because of the similarities between the boots. The primary differences, except for the forward lean plate, are not relevant or affected by the mods I’ve done. Also, way more people have the TLT6 so hopefully this will benefit more people.Measure twice cut once
I started by measuring out the spacing and placement of where I wanted my holes. I wanted to be sure than I didn’t make any of my holes too close to an edge, or the cuff hinge point. I think I kept a minimum of 0.5″ between the edges of any holes. I wrote my measurements down in my picture in case anyone wanted to know. Make sure you space the holes well so you have room to add more later if you need more flex.Medial Side: 4 – 1.25″ Holes
I put 3 holes on the lateral side of the boot as well. I left room for more holes here as well but after my test ride I won’t be adding any more.
Lateral Side 3 – 1.25″ Holes
Again, Phantom’s recommendation of using the hooked blade worked amazingly well. You can find them in the utility knife section at Home Depot. The are a “Roofer’s” blade. It fits into any box cutter. I think I got a pack of 5 for like $5. Here is the finished product.
Conclusions
• Immediately on my tour this morning, I noticed that my lateral flex had changed. Sidehilling, on some hard snow I noticed I had to lean into the hill more to get the same edge hold relative to before I cut the holes. My legs couldn’t be as upright as before. I didn’t have to lean in as much as I do in my soft boots setup but I did notice a difference. This is good reason to cut 1 or 2 holes at a time to slowly dial in the flex. Someone asked so I thought I’d edit this post to say I had the upper cuff buckle completely open. I may try the trick others have posted about to buckle the cuff but leave the forward lean unlocked to see if that helps in sketchy areas.
• Also, because of the increased flex, I noticed that occasionally the ankle guard (Circled in orange), dug into my leg a little. I will be cutting away some of that material until that doesn’t happen anymore.
• Downhill performance was awesome, It felt totally natural and less harsh than before. The snow was mostly powder on the northerly aspect and it felt just like my soft boot setup. on the exit we wrapped around to west that had been sun affected and more crusty with trees and it felt just as good. Nimble transitions, easy to drive. This really damped things out. Regarding the downhill performance, I don’t regret this change at all.
• Phantom suggests a few other types of mods like cutting slits in the lower boot on either side of the hinge point. This may be necessary for smaller people but I won’t be doing it. I got all the flex I need. I’ll update as I ride in other snow conditions and get more experience on them.
• I think what this comes down to is that you have to compromise a little. For skinning, you want a laterally stiff boot for great edge hold, but on the downhill you want less laterally stiff boot for maneuverability. You just got to pick your priority and change it a little at a time till its just right.
• The uphill advantages of AT Ski boots are awesome though.
+ More natural stride and ankle articulation.
+ More comfortable than soft boots on the uphill.
+ Lighter weight since boots are lighter and the bindings are in the backpack.
– The biggest drawback I see is that at least for me, my TLT6 C-One liners are definitely not as warm as the soft boots. I’ve been using this on cold days that seems to help.
Recommendations
• I started with 4 holes on the medial side and 3 on the lateral side of the boot but I would maybe recommend starting with only 1 or 2 at a time and then go for a ride to make sure you don’t make your boot too soft and flexy. Especially if you are a larger person.
• Make sure you clean the holes well with the roofer’s blade. Try to make sure that you didn’t make any deep nicks or gouges because this is where cracks can form over time. This is pretty tough, thick plastic so I wouldn’t expect any issues.
• For reference, I’m 6’3″, 205lbs, so I can produce a lot of lateral torque on the cuff. Smaller people may need additional mods to get it where they want. Heavier people may want less.Other Mods I’ve Done
I did the typical forward lean plate mod as well. Last year I ground the plate down and up because there was initially too much “Highback” and not enough forward flex. I can’t remember how much I ground it but I have it written down here somewhere. I do remember that each boot was ground differently according to my stance. Front 27°, Back 0°.
FYI – I don’t ride with the removable tongues in place.
Wow that might be the longest post I’ve ever made.
Ok,thx WhitePine and Buell.
I have lowered the lower boot ankle guards by 1cm on both sides and i have cut slots.
Only on the inside(medial?) and not too deep (11’5cm from bootsole).
Tested this morning at indoor ski (sad i know,but great for testing 🙂 and it feels very good.
Going to cut the same depth on the outside and deepen the inside to the same height as the pivot.
Hi guys
I’m new to AT boot splitboarding, got the new TLT6 with Phantoms/Dynafit bindings and did the first tour with them today. Mixed feelings… ascent was simply brilliant; it’s night and day. So I really would like to love this AT system, but… the downhill was pretty painful. Felt like a bench vice trying to crush shins n calves… I reckon I can improve this harsh sensation by modifying the fwd lean aluminium plate, so there’s more give, but the too much too rigid fwd lean actually buggers me more:
The hind boot rim bites directly into my calves making any heelside turn or – even worse – traverses PITA. (I’m a girl… my calve muscles are lower attached on the leg that those of guys).
I’ve seen many mods mentioned in this thread which increase the fwd lean; but is there anything to decrease the lean?Or has anyone ever cut off the upper boot rim? The entire upper part holding the power strap. What’s your take, would this improve the calve bite issue but cause other issues? (I’m bit nervous to just cut as I’m new to AT boots and mods)
Jones Solution 152 / Phantom Alpha / Dynafit TLT6 Mountain CL
(Spark Afterburner / Deeluxe XV)
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