Forums Splitboard Talk Forum Do you switch your board halves when hiking?
Viewing 20 posts - 21 through 40 (of 53 total)
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  • #661969
    dude_reino
    467 Posts

    @powderjunkie wrote:

    i could see how someone could have a preference on what leg they prefer to hold (lower vs. upper).

    But, regardless of that, wouldn’t the straight inside edge hold/traverse better than the outside curved edge? :scratch:

    No. The whole purpose for sidecut is to allow for more edge control. Without sidecut, all of your weight is concentrated on the 30 or so centimeters of edge directly under your boot. But with sidecut, the ski bends to conform to the slope, and your weight is spread out across the entire 160 centimeters of edge on your board, thus allowing the entire edge to hold you to the slope.

    It may be difficult for long-time boarders to understand, but those of us who grew up skiing remember the invention of the ‘parabolic’ ski in the early nineties that pretty much changed the world of resort skiing and made icy slopes much safer to ski on.

    #661970
    chrisNZ
    304 Posts

    @dude_reino wrote:

    @powderjunkie wrote:

    i could see how someone could have a preference on what leg they prefer to hold (lower vs. upper).

    But, regardless of that, wouldn’t the straight inside edge hold/traverse better than the outside curved edge? :scratch:

    No. The whole purpose for sidecut is to allow for more edge control. Without sidecut, all of your weight is concentrated on the 30 or so centimeters of edge directly under your boot. But with sidecut, the ski bends to conform to the slope, and your weight is spread out across the entire 160 centimeters of edge on your board, thus allowing the entire edge to hold you to the slope.

    It may be difficult for long-time boarders to understand, but those of us who grew up skiing remember the invention of the ‘parabolic’ ski in the early nineties that pretty much changed the world of resort skiing and made icy slopes much safer to ski on.

    i think this is BS. Only point i see in a side cut is for turning. My inside edge slides out much less than my out side edge skining. A curved edge will never bight as hard as a straight edge. Yet i still havnt tried skining with straite edges in the middle.

    #661971
    FaDe
    83 Posts

    @dude_reino wrote:

    No. The whole purpose for sidecut is to allow for more edge control. Without sidecut, all of your weight is concentrated on the 30 or so centimeters of edge directly under your boot. But with sidecut, the ski bends to conform to the slope, and your weight is spread out across the entire 160 centimeters of edge on your board, thus allowing the entire edge to hold you to the slope.

    As a former skier who used to ski on the straight skis like 15 years ago I agree with this, but however this only applies in the movement going downhill where the curvature and protruding wider parts of tip and tail cut into the surface better when inclined in carving a curve.
    But as of what I observed when traversing icy or hard surface the curved edge slips more than the straight. Obviously it is better in a standing/hiking position to put higher pressure on shorter part of the edge which will bite better into the hard surface than distribute the pressure along the whole effective edge.
    As I use my lower leg for main support I like much more the straight edge on the inside.

    My friends who are not so good in skiing and therefore can’t take the advantage of a curved edge on a ski because they don’t have enough speed going downhill and they don’t carve the turns, they always complain about carving skis to be more slippery on ice and with worse edge hold than old traditional straight ski. I think this supports my theory that curved outside edge is good when cutting at incline and in speed into the surface, but not in standing or slow sliding.

    #661972
    FaDe
    83 Posts

    @powderjunkie wrote:

    ahh, gotcha. OCD would love that diagram and formulas.

    😆 😆 😆

    @powderjunkie wrote:

    but, i think that is irrelevant because if you switch boards, you don’t have any issues with hitting tips, because the tips are on the outside of each ski.

    Yes, but you are hitting the widest curved parts of tip an tail (where the effective edge ends) because they are now 2*y closer than the straight edges 😉

    #661973
    ale_capone
    864 Posts

    I thought skis had radius so they could turn like snowboards?

    Straight on the outside for skinning.

    Steep side hilling. I dont want my upper foot losing an edge and taking out my lower foot. Much easier to spot your lower fooot with a ski pole.
    And as its common belief, less radius equals better edge hole in steep and firm. Think of it as a self belay. Would you do that on your downhill side? Most confident point of contact should be uphill.

    Existing ski skin tracks will narrow your gate to the point that your bindins are constantly bumping and catching if you do straight side in.

    And as also pointed out, the point part of your board will catch on your skins tip clip. As they pass each other.You will face plant, and maybe damage your board. With the curved edges in, them clips come nowhere near each other

    Thats my personal experiance anyhow. I’ve done all of the above and now refer to the straight sides in as “skis on the wrong foot”.out

    #661974
    shredgnar
    643 Posts

    I switch my halves. It works better that way. Not gonna give you any equations or fancy diagrams, but I’ve been on splits for about 8 years now, and I’d like to think that I know what I’m doing. If you need extra grip side hilling, throw on some crampons. This ain’t rocket surgery people!

    #661975
    dude_reino
    467 Posts

    The only answer to this debate is to always skin in deep pow 😀

    #661976
    peacefrog
    376 Posts

    It seems to me that now is a good time to resurrect the shit talking thread we had going a year or so ago, so here goes.

    If you split with the straight side in you’re retarded, ugly, and I’m humping your girl!

    #661977
    FaDe
    83 Posts

    @ale_capone wrote:

    I thought skis had radius so they could turn like snowboards?

    Straight on the outside for skinning.

    Steep side hilling. I dont want my upper foot losing an edge and taking out my lower foot. Much easier to spot your lower fooot with a ski pole.
    And as its common belief, less radius equals better edge hole in steep and firm. Think of it as a self belay. Would you do that on your downhill side? Most confident point of contact should be uphill.

    Existing ski skin tracks will narrow your gate to the point that your bindins are constantly bumping and catching if you do straight side in.

    And as also pointed out, the point part of your board will catch on your skins tip clip. As they pass each other.You will face plant, and maybe damage your board. With the curved edges in, them clips come nowhere near each other

    Thats my personal experiance anyhow. I’ve done all of the above and now refer to the straight sides in as “skis on the wrong foot”.out

    Thank you ale_capone, everything you stated here makes complete sense to me, this is the kind of answer I was hoping for searching where the switching of the halves has its origins.

    Reading your post I realized why I feel more comfortable not switching the board halves while traversing. It’s because of the sloppy Burton S-interface in hike mode. Actually I figured out I use also my upper leg for support while traversing, but with the curved edge on the lower foot on uphill side (inside) and the amount of play in the interface I can’t get absolutely no edge hold on my lower foot on icy or hard surface. I can make a better notch with the upper foot, so with the slop of the interface upper foot with curved edge has equal edge hold than lower foot with straight edge.
    Tahnks :thumpsup:

    #661978
    FaDe
    83 Posts

    @powderjunkie wrote:

    i think it is better to have the straight edge on the upper ski. if you blow the lower ski you still have the upper one catching you and you can stair step way easier. i always dig in with my upper ski on icy traverses.

    I absolutely agree with you on this. I now figured out where the “problem” is (see upper post) 😉

    #661979
    KR
    159 Posts

    @shredgnar wrote:

    If you need extra grip side hilling, throw on some crampons. This ain’t rocket surgery people!

    Or, brain science, either! :mrgreen:

    Straight side, outside. Keeps all the interface stuff outta the way…

    And, the soft-booted splitboarder must always walk like a cowboy (or cowgirl). :thumpsup:

    #661980
    Zude
    367 Posts

    Walking like a cowboy is the best reason for switching so far! 😛

    #661982
    FloImSchnee
    291 Posts

    Straight edges in the inside, to have maximum hold when it’s most crucial: during kickturns/switchbacks on steep ascents.

    #661983
    chimp
    64 Posts

    This thread inspired me to try an ascent with the straight edges inside, what a mistake. I use the Karakoram clips and I’ve never tripped on my gear so many times. Literally took a knee some 10 times over 2500ft. There’s no way I’m putting the straight edge inside for the hike ever again.

    As for “slipping” or having more hold in tricky parts of the climb, use cramp-ons. I started putting them on when I need the tallest climbing ladder and I can’t believe how much better it is. The Mr Chomps are so easy to install and they keep you from sliding backwards no matter what. Think about it, you’re not really getting any glide uphill so why not get grip? I watch my touring partners without cramp-ons try to make switchbacks and it’s somewhat comical. I had the cramp-ons in my bag for so many tours and really never felt it was “extreme” enough conditions to whip them out. Fact is, when it really gets extreme it’s too late and inconvenient to put them on.

    Having the sidecut on the inside means you will scratch the tips of the skis a little, but the benefits outweigh the scratches in my book.

    #661984
    FloImSchnee
    291 Posts

    @chimp wrote:

    This thread inspired me to try an ascent with the straight edges inside, what a mistake. I use the Karakoram clips and I’ve never tripped on my gear so many times.

    It doesn’t make sense to have straight edges inside when using the protruding K-Clips, of course…

    #661985
    philip.ak
    679 Posts

    I’ve had the identical experience to chimp. K-clips and straight edges inside are a no-go when touring. I think I also caught the tip hook rivet at some point, though it was a while back.

    And yes, Mr Chomps are awesome. 🙂 Boilerplate chunk? Rime ice? Talcum snow on a steep, crusty headwall? No problem.

    #661986
    provotrout
    130 Posts

    When I’m schussing the slope down to Gorrona, the inside edges must have the radius. Outside foot initiates the turn, inside foot is your damping and support.

    I could have skiing technique way off, but it can help things out when you’re trying to cover ground.

    “Place more weight on your downhill ski on the inside edge. In that position, on the inside edge of your downhill ski, you are applying more pressure on the side of your big toe. Now, to make a turn, try to move pressure on your downhill ski from your big toe to your little toe at the same time pushing your hand. To do this simply roll your ankles downhill. For example you are going to the right, more weight is going to be on your left leg on the inside edge (side of your big toe) and pushing your right hand. Now roll your ankles from right to the left and changing your pushing hand from right to left. Keep in mind that the pressure has to shift from your big toe to the little toe on the downhill ski and on your uphill ski it has to shift from your little toe to your big toe. These movements have to be done simultaneously.”

    http://www.youcanski.com/en/instruction/carving.htm

    Never thought I’d read about how to carve on “parabolic” skiis.

    #661987
    UTAH
    830 Posts

    Straight edges in the inside, to have maximum hold when it’s most crucial: during kickturns/switchbacks on steep ascents.

    This would be the only reason I see for straight edge inner. Maybe someone can explain the theory for magna on the innner edge. Nobody from Jones can explain this to me. Someone make sense of this for me please.

    #661988
    provotrout
    130 Posts

    @UTAH wrote:

    This would be the only reason I see for straight edge inner. Maybe someone can explain the theory for magna on the innner edge. Nobody from Jones can explain this to me. Someone make sense of this for me please.

    REI guy told me it allegedly helps with torsional rigidity, which seems somewhat logical. Others I’ve talked to say that’s more theoretical than factual. Ski performance on your flat edge typically blows anyway so not sure how magne could offset the lack of a radius like the other edge.

    #661989
    Incalescent
    225 Posts

    @UTAH wrote:

    Straight edges in the inside, to have maximum hold when it’s most crucial: during kickturns/switchbacks on steep ascents.

    This would be the only reason I see for straight edge inner. Maybe someone can explain the theory for magna on the innner edge. Nobody from Jones can explain this to me. Someone make sense of this for me please.

    Theoretically it should bite better. You are increasing the PSI where the edge contacts the snow, so you bite deeper with less force. Also, serration (as edge is dragged across the snow). Easier scribing.

    Switching board halves originated from the early days when all splitboards were homemade, so in order to have a metal edge where you wanted it (i.e. inside), you had to switch your halves. Keeping the clip gear clear so it didn’t get banged up was a side benefit, but not the reason for switching. It’s propagated as a habit ever since then even though most splits now have inside metal edges.

    http://goldenincalescent.blogspot.com/

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