Forums Splitboard Talk Forum Backcountry/Outside Mag testers deem K bindings unreliable?
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  • #576550
    bcrider
    4149 Posts

    One of the testers from the recent Backcountry and Outside mag gear test had this to say about the Karakoram splitboard bindings….

    “The previous day he’d tried out the new Karakoram bindings and had to deal with a lot of issues in the field – they were deemed unreliable from that point on.”

    http://adamisstoked.com/2012/03/07/splitboard-demo-day-backcountry-outside/#

    Ouch.

    Splitboard.com still hasn’t been sent a set of the Karakoram bindings to review (after numerous requests) so I can’t speak to it firsthand but I gotta think that the testers were either inexperienced with the bindings (and possibly splitting in general) or doing something wrong. The world may never know. 🙂

    Looking at the pics, I see a couple other hints that some of the testers were probably just new to splitting…..2 section poles (really?) and lifting the ski instead of gliding….

    #652988
    wjb
    163 Posts

    If they’re going to slam a product like that they should spell out the issues they had otherwise the article is worthless

    #652989
    UTAH
    830 Posts

    Am I allowed to get on a soapbox without getting thrown into the outtabounds? I guess I’ll find out. This has been my biggest pet peeve since splitboarding blew up what about 3 years ago. Companies like K2 got in the game (finally) and rather than going to people with knowledge they put a guy with little to no split experience in charge of there splitboards, the result-poop. This is just one example. JONES, most the guys on the JONES team ride resorts, helicopters, snowmobiles. They hopped on this trend over the weekend just like most the others yet everyone immediately qualifies them as the “know all” of splitboards, the result-poop. Voile, same thing, sure they have some new boards coming out but whos testing them? whos providing feedback (Besides Bob, cause while I love Bob, why would you have the guy who talks the most shit on snowboarders be your snowboard tester), I brought this to Voile the result-poop/deaf ears. Karakorem- no different they need guys yo-yoing the shit out of there gear not resort riders or pros who get new gear every few months and only use it when there not riding lifts. After spending 375+ dollars on the Spark boots I personally find Spark to be unreliable based on how they missed the mark on so many obvious things any experienced splitter could have provided feedback on but instead went to the “pro scene for testing, the result- poop. Companies need to get a clue progress happens from the bottom not the top. Just a shame in my opinion. Yes I know soapbox and maybe doesn’t even relate to the original post but understand I have these same high expectations for myself for what I do professionally and I personally feel that this late in the game companies could be doing a better job. And for heaven sakes find some experienced splitter to do your reviews. If they ride resort more than 20% of the time….RED FLAG not your guys/gals. If they’ve been splitting less than 5 years…find someone else.

    #652990
    jlag
    118 Posts

    Cue BGnight……….

    #652991
    Jarno
    27 Posts

    I would love to know what these issues were, its kinda weak mentioning this in a review, and not explaining what and why…

    #652992
    jcocci
    699 Posts

    @utah wrote:

    If they ride resort more than 20% of the time….RED FLAG not your guys/gals.

    While I get your general statement I would’t agree with this part. There are lots of very experienced splitters who ride the resort a fair amount. I probably ride resort 50% of the time, maybe a little less, but would consider myself a very experienced splitboarder and have been splitting for about 15years. So that alone isn’t a qualifier. But, yes in testing any new product, they should have experienced people testing it. Especially when its new technology. Sone specifics on why they didn’t like them would also be helpful. What kind of issues? Lots of other things can attribute to gear not working properly.

    #652993
    Wasatch_Don
    101 Posts

    @utah wrote:

    Companies need to get a clue progress happens from the bottom not the top.

    I would like to humbly throw my hat in the ring to be the official gear tester for all splitboard manufacturers and reviews. Here is why I feel that I am the best candidate for this prestigious position:

    1. I’m a vert whore. Good luck finding someone else to put in 10k days when the snow sucks. That’s right, I’ll yo-yo a breakable crust long after the “pros” have gone home crying.
    2. I’m huge. Nothing says durability like letting the 6’4, 210lb guys exert some force on your gear for a season. If it lasts… your stuff ain’t poop.
    3. I have bad form. Not only am I heavy, but fairly uncooridinated as well. I’ll flex your gear in ways you never imagined.
    4. I run over stuff. Rocks and small trees fear me. While all the “pros” are scoping out the perfect line, I’ve already uncovered every possible obstacle between the peak and the car.
    5. I hate gear maintenance. I’d much rather push harder on something than actually adjust it. You won’t even need installation instructions for your gear if it lasts a season with me.

    I feel these reasons and others too numerous to mention make me an obvious choice to fill the role as official gear tester and finally put an end to the poop-making we’ve seen from manufacturers recently.

    All it takes to make this dream real is for a manufacturer to step up and replace the 100k+/year income required to maintain my current standard of living… and buy me a bunch of protein bars.

    Together, we can make a difference. We can stop the poop.

    #652994
    shasta
    143 Posts

    Utah wrote: “Companies like K2 got in the game (finally) and rather than going to people with knowledge they put a guy with little to no split experience in charge of there splitboards, the result-poop.”

    I really didn’t pay much attention to the K2 product because I’d always regarded them as a Ski Co.

    Last night at the Weed brewery we saw a slide show and video all narrated by Kyle Miller. He is sponsored by K2 and said he is working with them on product development. He struck me as knowing his shit and puts it to the test (to say the least) based on the gnar I saw.

    Sorry for the slightly off topic comment.

    #652995
    chrisNZ
    304 Posts

    From the same magazine that named the light rail as the editors choice in 2011? justa worthless opinion/marketing.

    #652996
    bcrider
    4149 Posts

    I agree with your post Utah and think it’s on topic.

    @utah wrote:

    If they’ve been splitting less than 5 years…find someone else.

    +1 and not a bad rule of thumb.

    As a side note, I’ll take this opportunity to give props to Never Summer, Arbor, Chimera, and Spark for getting some product in splitboard.com’s hands (and feet) to test this year. :thumbsup:

    Wasatch Don, yer funny. Since we’re throwing bids out there I’ll do it for 2 grand less. 🙂

    ps. In the tester’s defense, they have to be sorta vague as all the nitty gritty can’t be spelled out until the mag edition.

    The other issue I have with the Backcountry and Outside mag test is that it appears that the majority of their tester input is gathered over just a couple days, in one state. To have a truly objective review the process has to be done over a couple months (at the least) in a multitude of states and conditions (in my opinion). You’d think they’d reach out to splitboard.com and our members…

    #652997
    classicauto
    152 Posts

    @wasatch_don wrote:

    Here is why I feel that I am the best candidate for this prestigious position:

    1. I’m a vert whore.
    2. I’m huge.
    3. I have bad form.
    4. I run over stuff.
    5. I hate gear maintenance.

    I feel these reasons and others too numerous to mention make me an obvious choice to fill the role as official gear tester and finally put an end to the poop-making we’ve seen from manufacturers recently.

    LOL excelllent

    #652998
    jive stick
    110 Posts

    @utah wrote:

    Voile, same thing, sure they have some new boards coming out but whos testing them? whos providing feedback (Besides Bob, cause while I love Bob, why would you have the guy who talks the most shit on snowboarders be your snowboard tester), I brought this to Voile the result-poop/deaf ears.

    I try skis, snoboards and bindings, when they fit. Been doing that over 25 years.
    They get almost immediate feedback and it ain’t all positive.
    Wondering about the most shit talked? :scratch:

    wowasatch.com

    #652999
    shredgnar
    643 Posts

    Karakorum and sparks both have very experienced riders testing their gear. You don’t have to spend every day in the bc to know what works. Fact is, we aren’t to the point where this stuff is just plug and play. Bindings are tricky, adjustability is tricky. From what I’ve seen they both work great after some tweakage.

    #653000
    Skin up
    14 Posts

    I didn’t look at the pictures in the review for very long but i’m not seeing much beard in there.

    Not that you can’t trust all splitboard reviewers without beards…..just sayin’.

    I would trust you though Don based on those creds.

    #653001
    barrows
    1490 Posts

    Yeah, this is pretty ridiculous. Bordering on slanderous… Reviews published in widely distributed rags should hold themselves to much higher standards than this, a small company might live or die based on a haphazard “review” such as this-it is just plain irresponsible.
    There are plenty of real splitboarders out there with the experience, and the backcountry days to do real reviews, there is just no excuse for this poor example of journalism.

    #653002
    zerodog
    93 Posts

    I would love to hear what the deal is. So many people have been rocking them with very few issues. They flat out suck for posting that with no explanation.

    #653003
    keffler
    319 Posts

    My :twocents:

    Last year I picked up a set of K’s and put over 50 days on them (only 5 of those inbounds). Conditions were all over the map, powder to bullet hard snow. I split skied the crap out of them too. I did break a few parts here and there, but I was not left stranded nor did anything break while riding. I’d say they are a reliable system and the company has great customer service too.

    -Kef

    #653004
    whistlermaverick
    312 Posts

    Best post I’ve seen on this site……..

    @wasatch_don wrote:

    @utah wrote:

    Companies need to get a clue progress happens from the bottom not the top.

    Here is why I feel that I am the best candidate for this prestigious position:

    1. I’m a vert whore. Good luck finding someone else to put in 10k days when the snow sucks. That’s right, I’ll yo-yo a breakable crust long after the “pros” have gone home crying.
    2. I’m huge. Nothing says durability like letting the 6’4, 210lb guys exert some force on your gear for a season. If it lasts… your stuff ain’t poop.
    3. I have bad form. Not only am I heavy, but fairly uncooridinated as well. I’ll flex your gear in ways you never imagined.
    4. I run over stuff. Rocks and small trees fear me. While all the “pros” are scoping out the perfect line, I’ve already uncovered every possible obstacle between the peak and the car.
    5. I hate gear maintenance. I’d much rather push harder on something than actually adjust it. You won’t even need installation instructions for your gear if it lasts a season with me.

    Together, we can make a difference. We can stop the poop.

    STOP THE POOP!!!!!

    @j.memay

    #653005
    Kronicle
    3 Posts

    Heya splitboard.com folks –

    Mike Horn here – I was just alerted about this thread and apologize for not commenting/clarifying sooner. In addition to my duties at Kronicle I’ve also run the Backcountry Mag snowboard test the last 6 years or so.

    First and foremost, my apologies for any confusion or harm caused by said blog post—Karakoram is a proven system, and I have a ton of respect for what the Kloster brothers have accomplished and are contributing to splitboarding. I personally know several splitters that are very happy with their Karakoram bindings/interface over the long term. The article BC Rider posted to kick off this thread is from a tester’s personal blog, and does not reflect the opinions of myself, Backcountry Mag, Outside or the other 30-plus testers that just spent the last 10 days testing backcountry gear (and will continue to test that which is made available to us through the spring).

    As for the swirling opinions about our test crew … it includes a substantial crew of very experienced splitters, others who are newbies and still others with a few years experience. Our test crew represents a variety of experience levels and regional diversity, and 100’s of hours of work go into making all this happen from testing through publication.

    Thanks for putting all this through a hefty debate, and sticking up for the Kloster Bros/Karakoram. Again, my apologies for any confusion and negativity caused by all this, and feel free to contact me at the email address below, anytime.

    -Mike
    mike[at]holpublications.com

    #653006
    philip.ak
    679 Posts

    Whew. Sanity reigns again. 😀

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