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- February 23, 2012 at 6:03 am #648656EBwestParticipant
^damn thanks for the concise breakdown stomppow…good information. I can never get enough avy talk…i always have to keep reminding myself of the obvious red flags that are constantly changing while in the backcountry.February 23, 2012 at 2:26 pm #648657nickstaynerParticipant
I guess the “upside” to surface hoar is that if you find it in a pit, you’ll usually get a good idea of how it’s reacting. Problem is it’s not on every slope.February 23, 2012 at 6:52 pm #648636nedrapierParticipant
worth watching the second “further” trailer that bcr posted up. JJ, Xavier and Jimmy Chin getting badly caught out when they thought they were back into safe terrain.February 24, 2012 at 2:52 am #648658ale_caponeParticipant
I appreciate the reminders Tex, as I am sure you are concerned with you friends up here… just as I always am when shit is hitting the fan, here, and elsewhere.
But trust that myself and evryone I know is doing some deep thinking on the subject. At this point, we all should know the basics.. observations 101.. the tough part IS human nature.
For me, not as easy as managing sketchy conditions.
Hope we all can take something away from this crappy season for every region.February 24, 2012 at 5:07 pm #648659SPLITRIPPINParticipant
Great topic TEX…Bonez and I had a little bit of a scare early season. This was a wake up call that the smallest aspect, and not paying attention for a single fraction can be dangerous.
This season has given me the heeby jeebies. I’ve cancelled every trip except for a week to interior BC. Otherwise, I’m going to be fly fishing my ass off.
Stay safe peeps. This season is a goofy one.February 26, 2012 at 1:09 am #648660aliasptrParticipant
Think long term and take in the broader view as you venture out to revel in the mountains goodness and hopefully you’ll all live to be grumpy old meadow skippers 😀 Be safe friends…
+1! :rock:February 27, 2012 at 4:16 pm #648661
I’ve been reading Andrew Macleans blog a lot lately, he has had some pretty good advice on managing avalanche hazards. This deep slab instability we have is terrifying, and I am assuming I won’t get into anything like I did last year this year. I also just spent a week in BC, and it is going to be a difficult transition back into avalanche infested snowpack of Colorado. In BC, we couldn’t get anything for pit results to step down, where as here, its really not hard. Only the top new snow was the problem in BC, and it was almost always manageable. Not the case here in Colorado.
I liked his most recent post of going far for lame terrain. I may focus this year into travelling farther for more recon style trips for years to come. Lots of trees (in low angle), and new places. Not the most fun thing in terms of terrain riding, and after riding big terrain in BC, its going to be difficult, but I’ve found I get a lot of enjoyment out of finding new places to ride, even if they aren’t crazy. And if I can stay safe, so be it.February 27, 2012 at 7:49 pm #648662SPLITRIPPINParticipant
mellow terrain can be just as fun Bushy…You’ve got a good idea..stay safe to ride another day..Besides… there’s alot of milfs, loose college girls, and ba daka donk ladies that you need to take a ride on the “Bush-Train”… giggidy :thatrocks:February 27, 2012 at 10:37 pm #648663TEXParticipant
there’s alot of milfs, loose college girls, and ba daka donk ladies that you need to take a ride on the “Bush-Train”… giggidy
That Boy just aint rightFebruary 27, 2012 at 11:19 pm #648664SanFrantasticoParticipant
Lately, especially when touring with someone for the first time, I’ll remind the group that nobody should be uncomfortable with where they are. I have a hard time balancing encouragement for adventure with supporting a decision to turn around. I not only ask that anyone who has a bad feeling say something but I make sure that everyone knows that I’ll be disappointed if they don’t speak up.
I love that you do this. I do it too if there are new people in the group, a big group to manage, or challenging conditions. I’ll tell people look if you’re not comfortable speaking up, whisper it in my ear and I’ll speak up. I think it makes a big difference when everyone is feeling encouraged to speak up.
I would just add that even 2 people is equal to a group and even in that case the dynamic can be f*cked. Be wary of anyone with a ‘shut up and follow’ attitude.
Nice subject, TEX!
Putting the poo in swimming pool since 1968.March 2, 2012 at 7:12 pm #648665tiltedworldParticipant
I’m surprised no one has posted this yet this morning. Another tragic loss. 😥
I know that there is some predictability that cannot be factored, but the avy rose was considerable on N-NE-NW aspects and we received heavy new loading with 5 feet of new snow. Why would someone choose to be on the exact slopes forecasted to have likely human slides? This befuddles me to no end.
Preliminary incident details here:
My deepest condolences to all involved and the families left behind. 🙁
This weekend raises another red flag with a rapidly warming high pressure coming through, so be careful out there.March 2, 2012 at 8:13 pm #648666nickstaynerParticipant
Wow. Thanks for posting this. Reminiscent of some of the terrain I was going to hit up this weekend… always nice to get visuals.March 2, 2012 at 9:14 pm #648667PedroDelfuegoParticipant
Not to sound like a knucklehead, but…
This is the type of avy rose we see most of the year in Colorado, sometimes worse. If it weren’t for considerable we would never get out in the BC.
That being said, it seems to me that with 24-40″ inches in a storm cycle the avy rose should have been upgraded or a avy warning issued for a few days.
No disrespect or callousness intended. Be safe and smart out there.March 2, 2012 at 9:26 pm #648668tiltedworldParticipant
No I see your point Pedro, that rose is today’s which was an improvement from yesterday which is more like the CO one.
But it had also “just” been downgraded from High and there was an avy warning that was also “just” dropped, so I would have hardly considered N-facing slopes ready to go – too many red flags.
I mean no disrespect for those involved, and maybe its just my level of risk taking here, but I wouldn’t have been out in the storm cycle unless it was a lower angle S-SW slope.March 2, 2012 at 9:32 pm #648669
What is that avy rose? I’ve only seen this for a while…
:banghead:March 2, 2012 at 9:35 pm #648670PedroDelfuegoParticipant
I know! I’m feeling you, see you in a few weeks, cross your fingers….March 2, 2012 at 10:39 pm #648671
Yeah, it will go down, I have hope for sure, which is why we chose the end of March. Its all douching itself right now. I’ll be getting out this weekend and testing.March 2, 2012 at 11:27 pm #648672ColinParticipant
Regarding the ‘considerable’ danger rating, I stumbled across this on the avalanche.ca blog: http://www.avalanche.ca/cac/bulletins/forecaster-blog. It seems to make a lot of sense–yes, we deal with considerable conditions most of the time there is new snow and the majority of our time in BC probably involves considerable rating on at least one aspect. One thing to consider is the depth of the considerable instability–is it considerable probability of 6-12 inch slabs, or, as things are currently across much of the NW, considerable danger of a deep slab releasing? Some food for thought, anyways…March 3, 2012 at 10:46 pm #648673fustercluckParticipant
24-40″ in the Sierra is not like 24-40″ in CO. At least not usually. It’s very typical to find some safe BC during and right after multi-foot dumps. What’s really unusual this season is persistant weak layers. I’ve never seen those in Tahoe this late in the season, robably never past New Years. I actually climbed out of a line inbounds at the ski area yesterday because I knew there was potential for it to go and rake me through some nasty stuff. I still don’t know if I would have been where those guys were, there is plenty of other stuff with easier access that is probably a bit safer. The terrain those guys were in is mostly treed, but with some scattered open patches where slides are more likely, which is where it looks like they got caught. I’m not going to second guess them, though, as I do not know them or what their decisions were based on that day. I’m pretty sure every one of us has F-ed up and made a bad call and put themselves somewhere they shouldn’t have been, and just didn’t get unlucky that day.March 4, 2012 at 4:56 pm #648674TaftParticipant
a very wise man recently gave me a frame work around decision making. four questions.
1. Are we in avalanche terrain. (yes / no)
2. Can we manage the terrain. (route selection, identify hazards and safe zones)
3. Consequence. (as related to snow pack, terrain hazards, worst case scenario)
4. Is it worth the risk (risk identified both as hazard X exposure and the potential for loss or gain. this is a personal/group decision)
of course it take some knowledge and experience to answer these questions, but it works as a decision making tool if you constantly evaluate where you are and where you want to go using these questions as the frame work.
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