Viewing 20 posts - 21 through 40 (of 68 total)
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  • #635180
    aksltxlt
    621 Posts

    I think these appoach skiis would be cool to have in my quiver. I wouldnt pay 800 bucks for em, but if I did have them I would mainly use them for sidecountry access. Like the backciountry gates at Sierra or cuttin ropes at any resort. It would never replace my split (The split board is for going Deeper)

    #635181
    idarado
    69 Posts

    I don’t think I’m going to debate this with anyone on this site, everyone on here is obviously a passionate splitboarder. I’ve been splitboarding for 5 years and am well aware of the advantages and disadvantages. Your splitboard doesn’t ride the same as your solid.

    These skis cost $800 because they come with BD skins and a pack and they ski better than most AT set-ups. Lets go on a tour and you can tell me in person that I’m not having the same backcountry experience as you are. I’ll wait for you at the bottom. 😉
    Cheers,

    #635182
    bridgersurfer
    9 Posts
    idarado wrote:
    I don’t think I’m going to debate this with anyone on this site, everyone on here is obviously a passionate splitboarder. I’ve been splitboarding for 5 years and am well aware of the advantages and disadvantages. Your splitboard doesn’t ride the same as your solid.

    actually everyone on this forum is for pushing new technology and for having the best setup possible. its just that your system, while pretty sweet is not what we are looking for. you may as well tell us to just learn to ski. As stated numerous time this is a great system for mini golf areas and jibber crews, but for long days and it is just to bulky. Trust me I dig the innovation. :clap: But price wise……

    And for the old “it doesnt ride like my resort board….”
    That is from back in the day when voile’s splits had the gap.
    The last split I had a problem with was the S series and that is cause it was a noodly POS.
    My Never Summer’s are with me inbounds and out………..

    #635183
    a2k
    27 Posts

    I’m all for options! These look pretty sweet and a huge kudos to idarado for pushing the envelope and engaging us here on the forum for some opinions and feedback. Hopefully you benefit from some “market research” here to find ways to hit the sweet spot with your new product and be a huge success.

    I bet there’s a market for this setup, just probably not be the hardcore splitters. I showed this system to a few buddies that I’ve been trying to get into splitting and they all were very interested. The $800 price is obviously going to be an issue – the biggest thing holding them back from splitting is the upfront equipment investment. I could see a lot of people picking up a set at $300-$400, but not so many at $800 (especially when we all already have packs that we’re happy with). Hopefully as production picks up, the price will go down.

    #635184
    barrows
    1490 Posts

    Idarado:

    “well… Your splitboard doesn’t ride the same as your solid. “

    This is the kind of statement which will not be well accepted here. I am not going to debate this topic any further, but I do want to point out that statements such as this one do not help the further development of the splitboard. This site is Splitboard.com, and is dedicated to encouraging riders to splitboard, and to share their experiences with splitboarding. Suggesting that a splitboard has a performance disadvantage to a solid board perpetuates a myth, and is not what potential splitboarders should read when they come to Splitboard.com.
    I have over 25 years of snowboarding experience, and I can state with authority that a well chosen and set up splitboard has no performance disadvantage when compared to a solid board, except when considered for very advanced trick riding, like switch 1080s etc.
    Many, highly technical, first descents have been made with splitboards, including descents where riders are trusting their lives to the performance of the splitboard.

    #635185
    nickstayner
    700 Posts

    Plenty of splitters ride their splitboards inbounds. And the reasoning behind most splitters not riding their setup inbounds is probably more akin to skiers not rocking their dynafits/AT boots when rallying lifts- it has nothing to do with the quality of equipment.
    And splitboards aren’t solid enough to rock booters? How about Travis Rice’s part in the first AK segment of Deeper?
    On the other hand, this weekend I learned that one backcountry snowboarder actually prefers approach skis… so there ya go.

    #635186
    PedroDelfuego
    758 Posts

    The best part of using splitboards is no board on my back. Hands down. No question.

    #635187
    powturns
    1 Posts

    i am stoked to see these! though i do agree w/ what gtrashfilms said about mounting the touring bracket on the skis and mounting pucks on your solid board. for me, that would be the ultimate setup 😀

    i’ve put in roughly 300 days splitboarding (which i know is not as much as some, but probably more than most) and i have to say, i love skinning and i love snowboarding but i really don’t like splitboards. i’m always breaking them, they (mine at least) ride like crap, they’re heavy, they have lots of fiddly little components, blah blah.


    @barrows

    Weight on the feet-this is not an advantage to the approach ski system. The weight on the feet argument is based on the idea that the weight on the feet is lifted off of the ground with each step, requiring muscle recruitment to stabilize the weight on the foot in three dimensions. The weight of the splitboard on the foot is not lifted off the ground as it is slid up the snow.

    im sure what you’re saying is true in a lab or something. but for what it’s worth, last year i went on a trip that involved 33 miles of skinning in 2 days and i thought the muscles on the front of my hips were going to disintegrate. my 2 buddies were on nordic skis and they left me in the dust, i didn’t see them for most of the trip xD. i would’ve killed for a lighter set up on my feet.

    well, i may be the only splitboarder here who is interested in these little skis but i wanted to show some support for idarado. props dude.

    -christian

    #635188
    idarado
    69 Posts

    Some considerations:

    DIY split:
    Used board and bindings: $200
    Voile kit: $160
    Skins: $170
    Pack: $100

    Total cost: $630
    Weight with skins: 15lbs
    Doesn’t ride very well.

    Factory Split:
    board: $900
    Spark Bindings: $300
    Skins: $170
    Pack: $100

    Total cost: $1,470
    Weight with skins: 14lbs
    Rides better but still not the same as your solid board.

    Doesn’t everyone already own a board they like? No need to spend money on a split, just ride the board/bindings you already have.

    My solid board weighs 7lbs, these skis weigh 7lbs, combined I’m at the same weight as most splits. Plus my weight per foot, per step is much lighter.

    These skis come with a pack and BD skins, they transitions in seconds and you don’t have to peel and store your skins every lap. They are real skis, sidecut, metal edges, camber and perform as well as your split in ski mode – if not better as they have sidecut on both edges. The bindings are bomber, allowing for great traversing and accommodate any size boot. 145cm long, 135, 115, 125 (tip/mid/tail width).

    Currently they’re more expensive and heavier than i wanted to introduce to the market but based on the interest at SIA, the units will go up, the cost will come down and the weight will be dropped.

    This system will not be for everyone but it’s another option for people wanting to access the bc. They will be shipping Fall 2011.

    #635189
    summersgone
    820 Posts

    I really think you need to think about the whole package, not if you have it already. Were comparing system to system, apples to apples.
    Solid Board ~4-500 + ~150-200 for bindings
    Approach Skis – $800

    ~$1400 -1500 + 7 more pounds on your back. @idarado wrote:

    My solid board weighs 7lbs, these skis weigh 7lbs, combined I’m at the same weight as most splits. Plus my weight per foot, per step is much lighter.

    You don’t step while splitting, you glide, therefore there is less emphasis on weight on foot opposed to back. Its better to have weight off your back 5x as much in my opinion. Riding with 7 more pounds in your pack also doesn’t seem that fun.

    You’re still not going to win this arguement here for freeriding as others have stated: @idarado wrote:

    Rides better but still not the same as your solid board.

    For park riders, sure.
    I think your gear is excellently suited for the slackcountry and park riders who want to get out, but I don’t think it will be good for tours as others stated, but your also now competing with snowshoes, so that is where you should be focusing your arguement, and lowering the cost to compete.

    I still think you will have a hard time convincing us splitboarders on the advantages of approach skis for the terrain we ride.

    #635190
    russman
    692 Posts

    @summersgone wrote:

    …………
    I think your gear is excellently suited for the slackcountry and park riders who want to get out, but I don’t think it will be good for tours as others stated, but your also now competing with snowshoes, so that is where you should be focusing your arguement, and lowering the cost to compete.

    I still think you will have a hard time convincing us splitboarders on the advantages of approach skis for the terrain we ride.

    Good words Summer. I agree, this product would perfectly suite brand new BC snowboarders, but you can’t compare them to splitboarding. Try telling Kyle Miller to traverse the Picket Range on approach skis… There simply is no way to compare the efficiency of having weight on your feet and not your back.

    Also, putting an 800 dollar price tag is just silly… That’s 800 that could go to a dialed split setup.

    Also, although you guys think I’m a fanboy, the Karakoram touring system rides better than my solid boards. Just sayin…

    #635191
    Snowmoneil
    131 Posts

    @Ecobrad wrote:

    $800 is a joke.

    It would be nice to hear what Neil Provo thinks of them.

    Holy smokes where do i start with this debate! First off id like to say these ski’s are absolutely epic, it just depends on what you plan to use them for… I will always ride a splitboard for long tours and most missions, but approach skis will always have their place in snowboarding. This new product is unlike any ever made, it fits in your backpack! There is a lot of riders here in Utah and all over that like to build Jumps and Pow surf like me. Hands down, a split board is obsolete for these categories of snowboarding. Skinning up to a zone like grizzly gulch on a deep pow day to build a huge jump like pyramid or chads gap (if you are that crazy) you are going to want a solid board to rely on, no questions. Its no fun boot packing in deep conditions- I think there are a shit load of snowboarders out there who are going to love these things…

    I just got a new Snow-surfer this season, funnest board i have ever ridden in my life. Splitting this board would not be efficient in my opinion, its a delicate surf board!… For “snurfin” these ski’s let you access insane places that normally took twice as long on verts or snowshoes. No more sloggin for the pow surfers who like to ride custom boards out there.

    I agree with the others- it is a very aggressive price point… no billy mays deal
    This is splitboard.com and most of us here are happy with the splitboard and how it performs… Lots of people dont like splitboards and want to ride a solid board. Its your world

    snowboards, splitboards, skis, mtn approach skis, snowshoes, verts, snowmobiles, crampons, helis, chairlifts, snowcats, sled dogs, cars? All great ways to enjoy the winter, each have their place

    Thanks for the innovation Cory :doobie:

    #635192
    radam
    25 Posts

    @Snowmoneil wrote:

    snowboards, splitboards, skis, mtn approach skis, snowshoes, verts, snowmobiles, crampons, helis, chairlifts, snowcats, sled dogs, cars? All great ways to enjoy the winter, each have their place

    Nice, yep, different stokes for different folks. It’s nice to have options sometimes.

    A minor question for idarado – Since the skin is basically cut into 3 sections to allow for folding of the skis (otherwise it would create a ‘bubble’ when unfolded) is the leading edge of the two rear sections somehow integrated or attached to keep it from peeling off? Just curious, since I noticed potential issue that after watch the animation again.

    #635193
    Ecobrad
    2068 Posts

    Thanks Neil for your no bullshit answer.

    There is a lot of riders here in Utah and all over that like to build Jumps and Pow surf like me. Hands down, a split board is obsolete for these categories of snowboarding. Skinning up to a zone like grizzly gulch on a deep pow day to build a huge jump like pyramid or chads gap (if you are that crazy) you are going to want a solid board to rely on, no questions. Its no fun boot packing in deep conditions- I think there are a shit load of snowboarders out there who are going to love these things…

    I just got a new Snow-surfer this season, funnest board i have ever ridden in my life. Splitting this board would not be efficient in my opinion, its a delicate surf board!… For “snurfin” these ski’s let you access insane places that normally took twice as long on verts or snowshoes. No more sloggin for the pow surfers who like to ride custom boards out there.

    I think this right there nails it on the head. Every rider on sb.com that I ride with’s main objective is to ride the biggest, steepest, sexyiest pow filled lines they can handle. Sure, most have spent their day in the park, but as a group most are not hitting big gaps anymore.

    Maybe the progression goes: park, approach ski hits, then splitboard tours. That not some profound acknowledgment or anything.

    I think what I’ve just confirmed for myself anyways is that I’m a creaky old bastard.

    A few have talked about wanting access to their quiver of solid boards…I’m working towards a quiver of splitboards and one solid board.

    #635194
    idarado
    69 Posts

    Thanks for the post Neil. It’s good to have options, side country, jumps and pow surfers will be stoked on this product. I respect the input on this forum and the people involved, which is why i want to make sure you guys have as much info on the product as possible and have an opportunity to check the system out. The system will be great for people not willing to invest in a factory split and want to ride their normal board, which is a large percentage of the market. Leisure trends reports that 1.7 million snowboarders say they are “backcountry and sidecountry” participants. Only about 6,000 splits are sold annually, that leaves a lot of potential customers.

    I’ve been using this system for over two years now and my average tour is 4-5k and i’m not riding low angle stuff. These skis will get you anywhere your split will get you. If i was doing a multi-day tour, i’d take my split.

    #635195
    jbaysurfer
    947 Posts

    @Ecobrad wrote:

    Thanks Neil for your no bullshit answer.

    There is a lot of riders here in Utah and all over that like to build Jumps and Pow surf like me. Hands down, a split board is obsolete for these categories of snowboarding. Skinning up to a zone like grizzly gulch on a deep pow day to build a huge jump like pyramid or chads gap (if you are that crazy) you are going to want a solid board to rely on, no questions. Its no fun boot packing in deep conditions- I think there are a shit load of snowboarders out there who are going to love these things…

    I just got a new Snow-surfer this season, funnest board i have ever ridden in my life. Splitting this board would not be efficient in my opinion, its a delicate surf board!… For “snurfin” these ski’s let you access insane places that normally took twice as long on verts or snowshoes. No more sloggin for the pow surfers who like to ride custom boards out there.

    I think this right there nails it on the head. Every rider on sb.com that I ride with’s main objective is to ride the biggest, steepest, sexyiest pow filled lines they can handle. Sure, most have spent their day in the park, but as a group most are not hitting big gaps anymore.

    Maybe the progression goes: park, approach ski hits, then splitboard tours. That not some profound acknowledgment or anything.

    I think what I’ve just confirmed for myself anyways is that I’m a creaky old bastard.

    A few have talked about wanting access to their quiver of solid boards…I’m working towards a quiver of splitboards and one solid board.

    ^^^

    This.

    Also, the numbers you used for your factory setup Idarado, are a bit massaged. You can, as we speak. Buy a Voile Mojo RX with Lightrail Split specific bindings, including skins and all hardware for 1k. While it’s true that many of us are rocking karakorums or Sparks, the lightrails are an excellent cheaper option, and I personally like the MojoRX better then my Burton Custom X with CO2 bindings. Weight dangling from my front leg on a chairlift is the only reason I ever DON’T ride my splitty in bounds, and sometimes I do.

    Nonetheless, I will never argue more choices are bad for a competetive market, and I wish you luck in your endeavors. I do think you’re gonna struggle if you can’t get the cost down to about half of what you’re currently charging though..because in the end…the VAST vast majority of slackcountry riding powsurfing road gapping crew is gonna opt for $100 snowshoes rather then 800 approach skis.

    #635196
    nickstayner
    700 Posts

    Good luck man. I’m sure you’ll sell a few of these things. I have a little contention with your continual focus on justifying the price though. You seem to want your potential customers to forget that the extra $300-400 of a retail split setup gets them a sick new snowboard too!

    Also, you don’t seem to acknowledge that a lot of folks getting into splitboarding won’t pay anywhere near full retail for their setup. They buy used locally or off online classifieds found on sites like this one, and can often walk away with a sick split setup for a few hundred. I know my first setup cost me $150 for everything.

    For what it’s worth, I thought of how these things would apply to my own situation. I’ve ruled them out of any sort of real backcountry options, but I considered them for Bridger Bowl slackcountry for a bit… until I realized I’d have to rip around with an extra awkward 7lb load in my pack. Seriously… when you consider the amount of time these things would spend in your pack to the amount of time they’d be on your feet, I just think it justifies the splitboard more and more.

    Just trying to provide one more splitter’s opinion for your “market research” or whatever you’re doing…

    #635197
    a2k
    27 Posts

    At $800 and 7 lbs I wouldn’t get a set, but at $300 and 4 or 5 lbs, I would. I’m sure that makes nobody happy, but it’s the truth. 🙂

    #635198
    WhitePine
    503 Posts

    I think this is a cool innovation. Although I wouldn’t use them for say… snowboarding purposes, I can definitely see where they would be attractive to people like snowshoers, winter backpackers, and especially ice climbers.

    #635199
    Snurfer
    1448 Posts

    Idarado, have you considered a “pack-free” option? I’m guessing many folks already have multiple packs.

    Additionally, it seems like an unnecessary cost both to you as the manufacturer and to the potential customer.
    Perhaps you should just go with your innovation as is, without the pack. No point reinventing the wheel.

    All the best!

    Shark Snowsurf Chuna
    Voile V-Tail 170 BC
    Voile One Ninety Five
    Spark R&D Arc

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