Forums Splitboard Talk Forum Am I overreacting?
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  • #570294
    bcrider
    4150 Posts

    As I push forward with my goals for the site it’s lead me to research a lot of various things. During my research I found two things that annoyed me and wanted to ask the community on whether I’m overreacting or not.

    1. I found a recent article on splitboarding here:
    http://www.greatoutdoors.com/published/the-magic-of-splitboarding

    I’m stoked that folks are writing and blogging about splitboarding and I even thought of trying to find the author to see if he’d like to post his story here. As I read the piece I got to this paragraph:

    “Basically, a splitboard allows the snowboarder to take the board apart into two ski-shaped pieces and, with the use of climbing skins, ascend the slopes in the same manner as a traditional skier with AT gear or a telemark setup. Once at the top the rider can transform the skis back into snowboard mode for the descent. A snowboarder can use the same boot and bindings setup used on a solid board.”

    Doesn’t it sound vaguely similar to this paragraph from splitboard.com’s FAQ: (old version, the new one is worded slightly different)

    “A splitboard is regular snowboard that splits apart into two halves that become skis. This allows a backcountry snowboarder to ascend the mountain in the same manner as a backcountry skier…with skis on their feet not on their back. Climbing skins are used for traction and the same trail or skintrack.

    2. There is a link on the bomberonline site that says splitboard.com that does not link to splitboard.com….it links to bombersplitboards!

    See here: http://bomberonline.com/store/boards/index.cfm on the right hand side. There was a time when we worked together but that was 2 years ago. It seems like the link should have been fixed by now and I can only interpret it as intentional misrepresentation. No?

    In bombers defense I’ll take some of the responsibility for not checking on the link sooner but sheesh, it just seems kinda wrong.

    #607461
    TEX
    2486 Posts

    No, I dont think you are over reacting. I would send a letter to the editor of the magazine and show him what you showed us. It plagerism(sic?) I never was know for my spelling.

    As a writer this guy should know better. He copied it directly.

    As far as Bomber I would just write a friendly email asking them to repair the link

    But no, I dont think you are over reacting. Your site is a bussiness and Im sure if you had done these things they would be knocking or banging on your door.

    Especially the first. On that I would tell the editor you will take a free small add in the next issue and that way you wont call your Lawyer

    #607462
    bigdood
    457 Posts

    It sounds vaguely similar, but not nearly enough that I’d instantly assume he took it from you. I’d be more inclined to say he took it from the Wikipedia entry for “splitboard” (I believe you wrote the Wikipedia entry?) I’d bet money that he was on splitboard.com doing research for his article though.

    As far as the 2nd case I’d definitely contact them as it is misrepresentation and associating your brand/company in a manner that you don’t approve nor benefit from.

    #607463
    bcrider
    4150 Posts

    Thanks guys. I think I’m less annoyed by example 1 as opposed to 2. I don’t think the author made money off the piece and in the end it brings awareness to the sport on other places besides sb.com which is one of my goals. A simple mention or reference in the article would have been perfect. The wording is just too darn similar. I’m surprised Mike isn’t part of our community too…or maybe he is.

    For example 2, there is money and ethics involved and its disappointing considering our previous relationship. I’ll take some of the responsibility however by not checking on things sooner.

    Thanks again.

    #607464
    powderjunkie
    1669 Posts

    My guess about the bomber site is that the link is really old (2004) from when you did have the partnership. A simple request to Fin should fix it.

    The article is pretty similiar and, I bet he lifted it from the site, but, meh, who really cares. It’s just words and not truly plagerism.

    #607465
    Ecobrad
    2068 Posts

    Annoying but not plegarism. I bet it’s an honest mistake or old link on bomber.

    #607466
    BigJay
    342 Posts

    I haven’t posted anything about all the recent updates so here’s my random thoughts about splitboard.com

    I love the positive vibe here. I love how everyone comes from different areas and it all mingles great togheter. Everyone that participates here contributes to the success of the site.

    The only thing i never liked about website that get bigger is when you start preaching about your site’s sponsors product and not letting people speak their mind about it. Don’t take this the wrong way… I mean it to be constructive… I had this problem with a local website where they started censoring TRs made when the resort was closed for liability issues… They then censored TRs that didn’t make up the resort to be the best thing since sliced bread… for example, one of my TR was taken off after i said patrollers almost took my pass for riding pow on the side of the trail by being to close to the trees… TR was taken off because it made the resort look bad… I know we’re far from that overhere… but remember why people came here in the first place… We all search info on technical stuff that we couldn’t find on corporate websites and also to share our experiences with backcountry snowboarding… That’s the essence of this website.

    Now to answer the main question: You’re not over-reacting when it comes to the link posted by BOMBER… but for the first one, it’s mostly an honest mistake from a jr writer… Like you said, a simple mention of splitboard.com would have done it… Just write him an e-mail… you’ll both laugh about it.

    But seriously, keep it up! The quality of this website makes it unique! No BS, no posers and no 200-posts a day like TGR or TT!

    Good job!

    #607467
    jcocci
    699 Posts

    As its been said already I would just contact bomber about it and let them know, they may not even know.

    As for the first I agree that its similar but not enough to be stolen. Honestly if anyone that knows what a splitboard is and how it works wouldn’t that pretty much be the way anyone would describe it?

    #607468
    bcrider
    4150 Posts

    Thanks for sharing your story and thoughts BigJay, I appreciate it! I don’t plan to let the site get like the one you described that’s for sure.

    I’ll take your comments to heart and add a few of my own.

    As you’ve noticed as of late I’ve been working really hard to make this site and my passion for splitboarding more than just a hobby and more of a business. I really hope this doesn’t turn you (and others) off on the site and you don’t hold it against me. There are a lot of folks in the snowsports business and I don’t think they all have the genuine passion that I do. Hopefully you think I’ll be a nice addition.

    They say that all things happen for a reason and ever since I was laid off from my day job a few months ago it’s put a lot of things into perspective. It’s given me an opportunity to think about the site, the direction I want to take it, and the actual time to start the process.

    I think the main thing you’re saying is to KIR (keep it real) which I assure you is at the top of my list. You’ve been here long enough to know that I want the splitters to voice their honest opinion and I don’t censor or delete threads very often (only a couple times in 4+ years). I’m not preaching about the sponsors but I do need to give them reasons to be here. Its a fine line and I will be trying my best to walk it correctly. I just ask folks use some class with posting negative stuff. Lord knows I’ve bashed companies on various forum in the past sites but I like to think there’s a more tactful way to approach it. You can say negative stuff, just think about how you say it and whether its just a way to vent or if it will be constructive to the community, site, and sponsor.

    In the recent prior thread I could have done a better job of letting you guys speak your mind so I plan to learn from it. I’m not perfect either and it is always a work in progress.

    As I said, I hope the fact that I’m treating the site as more of a business this year won’t keep you from visiting and being an active member. I also hope you see it as a good thing like I do. Over the past few years when I haven’t been able to put as much energy into I can’t help but think what if I did. Maybe we’d have a splitboard specific boot, or more evolved interfaces, or more magazine coverage, or lower prices, or etc….

    Thanks for listening.

    #607469
    bcrider
    4150 Posts

    @jcocci wrote:

    As its been said already I would just contact bomber about it and let them know, they may not even know.

    As for the first I agree that its similar but not enough to be stolen. Honestly if anyone that knows what a splitboard is and how it works wouldn’t that pretty much be the way anyone would describe it?

    I did and we’ll see what fin has to say.

    Re the article, I don’t think he stole anything and I’m really not mad about it. I’m glad there are folks out there spreading the word about splitboarding…its IS magical as his title described. I just think he could have worded it a little better to not sound soooo similar. Sure there are only so many ways to describe it but that was too similar. It’s all good though.

    #607470
    SanFrantastico
    1514 Posts

    I just want to throw out props to you, Chris, both for starting this awesome community that has given me so much enjoyment and for your recent work on the site. The front page really is looking professional and I’m stoked to see you landing a bunch of new sponsors.

    It looks like you’ve taken care of the plagerism/link issues, but I’d like to address the sponsorship issue.

    I’m very thankful to Prior for helping sponsor the site. In the early days people raved about Prior boards and they became *the* board to get. Then people started posting some very valid quality control and customer support complaints on the site. Just as Prior benefited from the positive, it was stung by the negative. I think organizations can change and we should give Prior the chance to do so. But the best way they could help their cause is by committing to excellent quality control and customer support and earning some more rave reviews from the people here on sb.com that actually use their products.

    You should make it clear to the sponsors when you sign them up that it’s on THEM to earn their reputations & it’s not your job to protect them. Instead of busting your nuts they could easily have the equivalent of what Karma Surf and now Wasatch Surf have done for Voile – participating in the community and guarding their reputations by using feedback from the site to improve their offerings. That way, everyone wins. You might also ask Mitch how he deals, because I’ve heard the same situations alluded to over there and I think he’s lost a few sponsors who didn’t like the feedback from that site. But I think that if someone would rather leave in a huff or pressure you than operate a quality business then in the long run it’s better to see them go.

    Please note that for the last paragraph I’m talking about sponsors in general, and I’m not making any accusation of anyone busting your nuts, etc.

    Oh yeah – glad to see you more active on the board again!

    Putting the poo in swimming pool since 1968.

    #607471
    BigJay
    342 Posts

    @bcrider wrote:

    I really hope this doesn’t turn you (and others) off on the site and you don’t hold it against me.

    Hey no worries there! The fact that it’s 80deg out here and i’m reading a snowboard site tells you how much i can’t wait for winter!

    But thanks for sharing how you feel about your own site… Pretty cool of you!

    And don’t worry about becoming “like the other site” i mentionned… Things have changed over there because people were complaining… Now they got their act together and it’s back to being a pretty nice site.

    I manage 2 other forums as well… so if you ever need help, let me know!

    #607472
    bigdood
    457 Posts

    @BigJay wrote:

    @bcrider wrote:

    I really hope this doesn’t turn you (and others) off on the site and you don’t hold it against me.

    Hey no worries there! The fact that it’s 80deg out here and i’m reading a snowboard site tells you how much i can’t wait for winter!

    Only 80? We need a 70 degree temp swing to get down to freezing around these parts. Dying today! 😯

    #607473
    rms56
    121 Posts

    from what I know it is really up to you to defend your trademarks and the like…if you don’t…well you may actually lose out in the long run…..the article…..well all writers do it from time to time.

    The Bomber link may be an oversight but they should be informed ASAP and given the oppourtunity to change things.

    All the best in making this passion of yours as rewarding as possible for you and your family.

    8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

    #607474
    fullers2oh
    525 Posts

    well seeing as how its summer and you probably have not had turns in a couple months i know i would be over-reacting if i had a bowl of cereal and spilled some milk.

    anyway i dont think so at all but yeah as most have said #1 – well its not exactly cut and paste but close enough. it does happen and you noticed it so you sent an e-mail to the author, give him a chance to reply before rolling out the jump to conclusions mat. #2 the website link is not very upstanding and you are right for being upset but give them a chance to correct it and see what happens.

    #607475
    Jon Dahl
    384 Posts

    I don’t think you are overreacting on #1, a little credit where it is due. There is NO misrepresenting on the Bomber link, so you ARE overreacting there. Fin has a right to sell gear that he designs/builds, or retails, and that is what that link is for. And I regularly send people to this site for info, it is the #1 place to go.

    #607476
    bcrider
    4150 Posts

    @Jon Dahl wrote:

    There is NO misrepresenting on the Bomber link, so you ARE overreacting there.

    I politely disagree Jon. Did you look at the link I included in my original post? He has a splitboard.com link that does not link to splitboard.com, it links to his store page! That is using the splitboard.com name (that I’ve worked hard to build) to benefit his store, which is just wrong. Do you really think that is fair and is not misrepresentation? 😕

    @Jon Dahl wrote:

    Fin has a right to sell gear that he designs/builds, or retails, and that is what that link is for.

    Again Jon, your reply makes me wonder if you even clicked on the link. I know you’re tight with the carving community over there but come on. Of course he has a right to sell the gear he designs. Heck, he even has the right to sell gear he doesn’t design. But he should not be using the splitboard.com name to do so when there is no partnership between the two. To do so is deceptive in my opinion.

    #607477
    Jon Dahl
    384 Posts

    OK, now before everyone gets thier jammies in a twist, the link in your post is different than the link on the home page for http://www.bomberonline.com . THAT link (in your post) definately needs to be changed, if it is still a good link. We were both right, on the link thing. OK?

    #607478
    bcrider
    4150 Posts

    During summer, my panties are always in a twist Jon. 🙂

    I’m glad it makes more sense to you now.

    ps. If you click on any of the products listed the main page it takes you to the page I originally linked which has the sb.com link that doesn’t really link here.

    Hope all is well with you btw.

    #607479
    Jon Dahl
    384 Posts

    Ya know, bc, if you just emailed him I am sure he would fix that in short order. Probably just slipped past him with everything he has had on his plate recently. He is most likely neck deep in cnc work right now.

    All is as well as can be expected, being 3 months from snow….

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