Forums Splitboard Talk Forum A new reason to bring your dog into the backcountry
Viewing 20 posts - 21 through 40 (of 62 total)
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  • #586391
    knucklesplitter
    340 Posts

    I have never seen an animal while riding in the BC besides birds, marmot, and a bear (once inside Kirkwood’s permit area). Have heard coyotes I guess, but not nearly as much as at my house, which is almost nightly.

    MBH’s points are valid though, and my bringing my dog would be reconsidered if I thought that protected wildlife were affected.

    Why the anti-dog-beacon from some though?

    #586392
    TEX
    2486 Posts

    I think you are 200% wrong on your statement that a dog and a wolf have the same sent to any wild animal. My dog lives in my house, he picks up smells from this enviroment. A wolf lives in the wild . he carries a much different set of olafs which is what all “smells” are made of . Now you may be correct in saying in causes fear , but I dont think the two smell alike to any wild animal. And how do you think the same pack of caribou think about your sent? I believe it sends the same confusion and fear as the smell of a dog or a wolf. So,I do agree with you but like most preachers you only believe in part of your stand. You go to these places which makes you no different than the dog. You are both intruders with strange sent.

    #586393
    Killclimbz
    1165 Posts

    Big horn does have a point though. To a caribou a dog is a predator and something to be feared.
    He also has a miss. Most areas in the US don’t have such heards to worry about. Around my locals there is no such wildlife that is in danger of being displaced. I am not going to see a bobcat, Caribou, or even Elk or deer. I have seen a few rabbits and some ferret-weasel looking critters. None of these are displaced by a pooch running around.
    Thanks for bringing up the topic BH and when I travel I will definitely consider what you’ve pointed out when I am deciding if I’ll bring my dog along or not.

    #586394
    knucklesplitter
    340 Posts

    I think P420’s main point is that humans are feared predators too (and feared for good reason). Though it’s been a while since I ran screaming after a wild animal for no reason (like some dogs (and Ted Nugent) do).

    I did have a strange dog traverse across a bowl and chase me down to the bottom barking the whole way once. I felt very distracted and stressed and ended up leaving the bowl. I do not approve of dogs displacing natural predators in this manner.

    #586395
    the mighty bighorn
    126 Posts

    Well, I’m not a biologist, and yeah sure a dog probably doesn’t smell exactly like a wolf. But your dogs scent most definetly lingers and without a doubt has an affect. As far as human scent goes, in most cases it would trigger a flee response in most ungulates. Our Caribou are protected by law and not hunted. When I have encountered the Caribou they have not fled.

    As far as small animals go I wonder if you have ever heard of the classic Lynx/ Snowshoe Hare predator-prey relationship. It is a well documented and studied relation. The hare go through population peaks and crashes which the lynx follow. In a crash year many Lynx starve and it can take years for the population to recover. In a crash year, a single Snowshoe Hare can make all the difference to a Lynx’s winter survival. If that Lynx is a pregnant female, it can mean the survival of the species in that area. Dogs love chasing rabbits, no self respecting hound can resist. You might think that it’s only rabbit and not an endangered species, but that Rabbit might be what the Lynx need for survival.

    #586396
    lifelinksplit
    282 Posts

    Mighty Bighorn- You bring up excellent points. The area I was in sees quite a large number of traffic (MT Ellis). However I as far as I know this particular place and surrounding area has a rather healthy cat population as evidenced by the increasing number of tracks I have been seeing. As you mentioned your area has certain restictions in place already and the fact people choose to ignore this is horrible. We have many places surrounding bozeman that I either choose not to bring my dog or am simply not allowed(yellowstone park). I have no problem leaving my dog at home if I believe bringing him will have a negative effect on the places I love. I also think I have at least a decent understanding of how small things can have huge effects on ecosystems since I the reason I am in Montana is I earned my degree in geography and can’t seem to leave(the very light fluffy snow might have a part in it also).

    Dammit I told myself I wouldn’t get into the whole dogs in the backcountry debate!

    edit to add: Damn you guys are fast

    #586397
    bigboater
    29 Posts

    @knucklesplitter wrote:

    Why the anti-dog-beacon from some though?

    Imagine how you would feel if a dog and your best bud get buried in a slide. You go for the nearest signal. You dig up the dog. by the time you get to your partner he is dead. That’s a hard thing to live with.

    Now I know how aggro some people are about there dogs, and some people would probably rather save a dog. However, if I was out with you both and your dog got buried and I dug up your dog instead of you, I would have a hard time living with myself.

    Don’t put a beacon on your dog, its disrespectful to your partners and to everyone who is in the back country that day. If you can’t live with that, the solution is not to brig him.

    #586398
    knucklesplitter
    340 Posts

    It’s a little different here. EVERY animal fears humans, because in NV no self-respecting redneck can resist shooting any furry/feathered moving object (or rusted abandoned car or bottle sitting on a rock either).

    I have seen lots of droppings near my house, but never even glimpsed a deer. The coyotes cruise the gully behind me and don’t seem to be too afraid. Both them and we would be better off if they were a little more wary, as there is talk of “doing something about them”, since they take an occasional housecat and are such a “danger to small children”. 🙄

    #586399
    splittilps
    154 Posts

    Knuckle Split, unless the dog is on it’s own frequency there is the potential for a partner to go looking for his buried dog instead of his buried partner. Or, if the dog isn’t buried but a human is, that dog will need to be caught and his beacon switched off before a search could start.

    I understand the points about stressing wildlife etc and my opinion is that it should be considered on a case-by-case basis. We don’t all live in places with sensitive wildlife populations but some of us do. Ironically, the places where I’ve seen snowshoe hairs or their prints, or cat prints, have been near forest roads in the same places that get snowmobile use.

    #586400
    knucklesplitter
    340 Posts

    @bigboater wrote:

    Imagine how you would feel if a dog and your best bud get buried in a slide.

    He is my “best bud” and often my only BC partner (when avy risk is low). What made me think of a beacon for him is the other day I got buried up to my waist in a small avy. I had left Brodie in the car because Lassen forbids dogs, and I’m sure he would have been buried if he were following me as usual.

    Admittedly I would rather somebody dig me out first than him. I am after all a father of two. Something to think about, for sure.

    #586401
    bigboater
    29 Posts

    That’s fine just make sure you are the only two in 5 mile radius. Think about the affect he could have on other parties that didn’t have the oppertunity to agree with with your dicission or not.

    #586402
    knucklesplitter
    340 Posts

    I think I’m starting to agree with you BB. This is why I asked, as a BC dog is new for me this season, and I didn’t read all those dog threads on TeleOffTopic.com. Perhaps my philosophy would be to leave the dog at home when there is risk to him, such as avy or terrain, and also when he could be significant problem for wildlife. No beacon for the dog unless it’s on its own frequency.

    #586403
    knucklesplitter
    340 Posts

    Did Utahgirl’s post just disappear?

    #586404
    utahgirl
    28 Posts

    Hey MBH, are you suggesting that if a rabbit gets chased a few hundred yards it will abandon its territory? Will it get together with the other bunnies and form a huge rabbit migration? When rabbits migrate do they turn crazy like locusts and start eating everything in sight? That might be the bigger danger – swarming, bloodthirsty gangs of rabbits who invade the cities in order to evade dogs in the backcountry. (Reminds me of a certain rabbit scene from the Holy Grail)

    I have to agree with patroller420. It seems hypocritical for the most savage, successful, and overrun predator that has ever existed on the earth to complain about the impact of a few dogs.

    #586405
    knucklesplitter
    340 Posts

    It’s back. That was weird.

    Nuh-ahhh Ugirl. The T-rex was the most savage. 🙄

    #586406
    Killclimbz
    1165 Posts

    @the mighty bighorn wrote:

    Well, I’m not a biologist, and yeah sure a dog probably doesn’t smell exactly like a wolf. But your dogs scent most definetly lingers and without a doubt has an affect. As far as human scent goes, in most cases it would trigger a flee response in most ungulates. Our Caribou are protected by law and not hunted. When I have encountered the Caribou they have not fled.

    As far as small animals go I wonder if you have ever heard of the classic Lynx/ Snowshoe Hare predator-prey relationship. It is a well documented and studied relation. The hare go through population peaks and crashes which the lynx follow. In a crash year many Lynx starve and it can take years for the population to recover. In a crash year, a single Snowshoe Hare can make all the difference to a Lynx’s winter survival. If that Lynx is a pregnant female, it can mean the survival of the species in that area. Dogs love chasing rabbits, no self respecting hound can resist. You might think that it’s only rabbit and not an endangered species, but that Rabbit might be what the Lynx need for survival.

    Ummm isn’t a rabbit going to run from a Lynx too? 🙄

    I have yet to see a Lynx out here either. Maybe they do exist but in the ranges I travel, it’s more likely I am going to see a Unicorn.

    #586407
    splittilps
    154 Posts

    @knucklesplitter wrote:

    The T-rex was the most savage. 🙄

    No my friend you got it all wrong, those in the know are now saying T-rex was a scavenger. Sorry to drift OT.

    #586408
    utahgirl
    28 Posts

    Sorry, I seem to lack the necessary skills/IQ to do the quote box thing right.

    BTW no offense to MBH. Im just giving you a hard time because your ecosystem situation is so different than mine. Dogs in Utah are limited to such small, already human-infested areas due to the watershed laws that to outline their proportionally tiny enviornmental impact (when compared to all the rednecks on snowmobiles and ATVs) would be ludicrous.

    Oh no, now I’ve offended the rednecks! These apologies could go on all day.

    #586409
    utahgirl
    28 Posts

    I still think humans win most savage. At least T-rex kills to eat. Humans kill for fun and often indiscriminantly.

    Still, we definitely should not allow ANY T-rexes in the backcountry!

    #586410
    knucklesplitter
    340 Posts

    @splittilps wrote:

    No my friend you got it all wrong, those in the know are now saying T-rex was a scavenger. Sorry to drift OT.

    Nuh-ahhh! I saw it on that documentary Jurassic Park.

    @utahgirl wrote:

    Oh no, now I’ve offended the rednecks!

    I think I beat you to that.

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