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 Post subject: Re: Jones Solution Carbon 2013
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:08 pm 
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My 2 cents.

I doubt there is much difference in producing a carbon board vs. a glass fiber board in terms of carbon emissions. The data which 'TRIPPIN' posted is for carbon vs steel, and I suspect that most of the emissions are from the resins rather than from the fibers, anyone know the straight poop on this?
RE wood cores, I believe Jones uses all FSC certified wood right? No issues there either.

As for weight savings, it is clear that the Solution Carbon is not an entirely carbon fiber layup, it is mixed glass/carbon, hence the weight savings are not as extensive as Prior's XTC Carbon, which is a 100% carbon layup.

As for strength and ride quality-well, this is all up to the engineering and how well they have done it. Carbon fiber layups have the potential to offer better ride quality than glass when properly engineered, because of carbon fiber's natural damping properties and extreme strength. Ask anyone who skis DPS' Pure Carbon skis. But, make sure they are gonna honor the warranty-so far Jones seems like they are pretty good at that. If they start breaking, hopefully early adopters will be able to get their hands on 2nd gen carbon boards as replacements.

I applaud those manufacturers looking to save weight and offer improved performance through the use of carbon fiber, it may take a little while to get there, but for high end boards I suspect we will see widespread use and acceptance of full carbon layup boards as the potential for improved performance is there-just look at other sporting goods... But, it takes experience with carbon to get the best out of it, one cannot just replace glass with carbon-the board has to be re-engineered in terms of layup and core profile, so expect further improvements in carbon boards as companies get more experience working with it.

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 Post subject: Re: Jones Solution Carbon 2013
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 3:01 pm 
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Agreed, I'd like to see a couple of generations of happy customers before I committed to a carbon deck. Every one that I've ridden was light and stiff, but lacked a lively feel completely. Oh and they were fragile as hell.


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 Post subject: Re: Jones Solution Carbon 2013
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 6:57 pm 
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Well there you have it,i'm not getting one,will wait a coupe of seasons and see whats up,i made the mistake with Karakroam and i will do my best not to be like a rabbit in the head lights with all the shinny new stuff,stick to what works :D

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 Post subject: Re: Jones Solution Carbon 2013
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:03 am 
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Location: Amsterdam
barrows wrote:
My 2 cents.

I doubt there is much difference in producing a carbon board vs. a glass fiber board in terms of carbon emissions. The data which 'TRIPPIN' posted is for carbon vs steel, and I suspect that most of the emissions are from the resins rather than from the fibers, anyone know the straight poop on this?


Well, glassfibre is molten glass and it takes a fair bit of heat to melt glass. I think carbon is essentially made by heating stuff untill everything burns off exept the carbon. This takes nearly twice as much heat and is a very inefficient way to make something.
If they compare automotive carbonfibre it's probably prepreg that will be put in an autoclave too. That process uses more energy on top of producing the raw materials.

If you compare it to an airplane, there isn't much carbon fibre in a snowboard. And you use a little bit less carbonfibre than glassfibre or your board will be too stiff.

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 Post subject: Re: Jones Solution Carbon 2013
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 10:28 am 
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Location: Bellingham, WA USA
Great thread, keep the comments coming, thought I would make some comments

So here is the 411 on our 2013 Carbon Solution.

First off these are limited run, so if you get one this coming season you will be one of a few, as far as the environmental impact/stewardship goes, this is a snowboard company and we do our best to have a limited impact on the environment, it is still a focus and we as well as POW contribute a lot to various programs that positively impact the environment - from education to activism. Building snowboards is straight forward - we use resins, plastic, wood, steel, glass fibers and space age materials, we cannot avoid that, we have to use the materials to bring you the products you want to ride. Of course we do our best to endeavor to use more environmentally sound processes and materials that we deem suitable to our rider's needs such as FSC cores, recycled bases with flip flop colors that limit the amount of wasted base material. It is no secret that Jeremy is passionate about the environment and has done his fair share to put the subject in front of people's minds - sure you could call him out, but that is not going to change his overall mission as an individual.

The Carbon Solution was not created to shave weight, it was created for the dampening, stiffness and fast reaction characteristics that cater to the most advanced and technical freeriders out there. We wanted to create a board that will charge at high speeds, grip on edge in icy conditions and be able to charge through varying conditions as well as handle the chunder and debris fields with limited ease. Will we develop a lighter weight board using Carbon? Surely we will explore this option. The good thing is we did shave 200 grams from the board, that is a plus for the board, but when you ride it you will realize what the board was built for. Personally I have spent most my spring on this board, it has been an amazing experience thus far, looking forward to some volcano action this spring and summer on it.

Second someone mentioned making a carbon that rides like the regular Solution - that was not the overall goal, had that been we would not have made the Carbon version. The over goal of the board is stated above.

Third - Quality issues - now that we have changed our manufacturing, our QC issues will be a lot lower than in the previous 2 collections from Jones Snowboards. The riders spoke and we listened. We are committed to putting out the highest quality finished boards and for those of you whom experienced issues, we are truly sorry for those issues but we have taken the necessary steps to alleviate these issues by shifting to the most reputable manufacturer in Europe to produce our boards moving forward. Both Jeremy and myself are doing on site inspection of all production at the factory. SO know moving forward Jones is committed to producing the best freeride snowboard products on the planet.

Should you guys have any questions regrading Jones feel free to contact me directly at the email below, we welcome constructive feedback. (Sorry if I do not respond directly on here, as we are small, I can only get on here every so often)

Again thanks for your comments, we do read and listen

Chad Perrin
Brand Manager
Jones Snowboards
chad@jonessnowboards.com


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 Post subject: Re: Jones Solution Carbon 2013
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 12:53 pm 
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Location: Cupertino, CA
Thanks Chad,

My comment on how the Carbon Solution might ride was based on past experiences with carbon boards.

Jones has done right by me, the boards are some of the best I've ever ridden in my 24 years of riding. :thatrocks: So much so that my experiences this year on the Flag58 and Hover60 led me to add a new Solution61 to my quiver and next year I will sell my Hover60 to swap out with a Hover60 split, as its a better tool for the inbounds/sidecountry days than keeping the solid Hover60, which I can easily say is the best powder board I've ever ridden. I am truly a Jones convert! :headbang:

One thing that continually irks me is the Flag topsheet, as even with treating the topsheet, the ash allows a lot of snow to stick to the topsheet. Is there another treatment that could be applied? Wood wax? I wish you'd have just kept with the thin film... :scratch:

Also wish the 58 radius was in the low, 9m range and more pop in the tail like the Hover, but that's a minor nit.

Brendan


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 Post subject: Re: Jones Solution Carbon 2013
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 2:16 pm 
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Location: Bellingham, WA USA
Brendan,
Thanks for the support and continued support is even more appreciate. In terms of the topsheet on the Flagship, I have cut and pasted some processes to consider that we posted on our Facebook page 2 seasons ago, let me know if it helps you:

It’s possible that after a few times riding your Flagship you will begin to see some dark discoloration on the board’s topsheet. What’s occurring is a natural process of oxidation when the water and wood interact with one another. The discoloration that is present does not mean that there is water under the topsheet; rather this is the wood protecting itself. Also bear in mind that the top sheet is only a thin layer of wood, with a barrier of glass and resin beneath it, the core is protected from the entry of moisture.

You can remove the discoloration by completing these steps:

1) Let the board dry completely in a room that is at least 70F. We recommend that you allow the board to dry with the bindings removed for at least 24 hrs. If you are able to allow the board to cure longer we recommend up to 1 week ensuring that it’s completely dry.

2) After the board is dry prep the topsheet by using a Scotch-Bright pad or fine sandpaper (150/180 grit).

3) Apply 1 or 2 coats of external wood oil varnish, which is rated for tech / marine / furniture.

Completing these steps will ensure the longevity of your board and many memorable powder turns.

Keep on Hovercraftin'

Best Regards,

Chad Perrin
Brand Manager
Jones Snowboards


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 Post subject: Re: Jones Solution Carbon 2013
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 4:10 pm 
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Location: Cupertino, CA
Thanks Chad, I had done this via linseed oil, which was also recommended. I'm not concerned about discoloration at all.

It is more that the snow seems to pile on and stick to the top sheet more than any board I've ridden, making it needlessly heavier under certain snow conditions. I am assuming it is the semi-rough topsheet providing lots of surface area for crystals to accumulate and stick. I was going to try a wood wax for flooring to in effect provide less surface area stick. A smooth surface like the rest of the line would be advantageous.


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 Post subject: Re: Jones Solution Carbon 2013
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:54 am 
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Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 12:42 pm
Posts: 16
Location: Bellingham, WA USA
Thanks again for your feedback and I apologize for the long lapse in response, just a little busy these days. In terms of the topsheet, we were going for a raw finish, maybe a little too raw when it comes to snow adhesion :). With our new manufacturing partner, the wood veneer is much smoother, thus this should eliminate this problem of heavy snow adhering to the board in such clumps, however, snow will stick to any board that goes through rapid temperature changes, so if you start your day and it is warmer then a cold system moves in it will naturally stick to any surface, just shake it off or scrape it off and you should be all good.

Thanks for the support and for the questions, and do not hesitate contacting us via email.

Cheers,

Chad Perrin
Jones Snowboards


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 Post subject: Re: Jones Solution Carbon 2013
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 1:16 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:54 am
Posts: 46
I'm tempted to replace my 2012 solution by a 2013 carbon one. Do you know when it will be available in Europe? Last year I had a hard time getting my split before the season started (I got the board in November after trying to buy from 3 different shops that had no stock) so if I'm selling it I wanna be sure I get hold of that new board asap...


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 Post subject: Re: Jones Solution Carbon 2013
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 3:21 pm 
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Location: Chamonix
Right on Chad,thanks for replying in this thread :bananas:

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