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 Post subject: Re: Lightweight Magnetraction
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:46 pm 
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Posts: 636
Taylor wrote:
shredgnar wrote:
We get it Barrows, you like harboots, long radius sidecuts, and longboards. It's definitely a recurring theme. Do you ever get sick of preaching this gospel? Not everyone rides like a skier.


Shredgnar, look up argumentum ad hominem.

A 7.93 m sidecut falls on the short end of the sidecut radius spectrum. That's a plain fact.




Does it keep you up at night that the OP ordered a 158? At least he's riding hardboots on a 11m sidecut!

You guys are so predictable and relentless to your agenda that it blows my mind.

Seriously guys, let it go. I've seen Barrows vids, now I wanna see Taylor riding a 190cm board with no sidecut in the trees.


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 Post subject: Re: Lightweight Magnetraction
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 2:07 pm 
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Location: London/Berlin
NS has no Magnetraction, but the Vario Grip isn't much worse than it. And the carbonium topsheet + rubber layer makes wonders. I rode a 2011/2012 161 Summit Split for a week on pretty much only icy runs in Les 2 Alps in March this year and it rode way more stable vibration-wise than any board I have ever ridden. The wide nose and narrow tail were a bit of a problem, but then the SL is twintip.

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 Post subject: Re: Lightweight Magnetraction
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 2:09 pm 
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Location: Salida, Flagstaff
My point exactly, shredgnar. Next time, just check facts before posting, that's all.

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 Post subject: Re: Lightweight Magnetraction
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 2:15 pm 
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Taylor wrote:
My point exactly, shredgnar. Next time, just check facts before posting, that's all.



Thing is, I never said that it wasn't a deep sidecut. I said that the SL split has less sidecut than the solid version. I checked the facts, which you should do on their web page.


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 Post subject: Re: Lightweight Magnetraction
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 4:13 pm 
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Location: Salida, Flagstaff
Shredgnar said:

"The SL split actually has much less sidecut than the SL solid."

This is a factually incorrect statement. The 164 SL radius is 7.88; the 163 SLS radius is 7.93. One is not "much less" than the other; they are virtually the same. See http://neversummer.com/snow/snowboards/sl and http://neversummer.com/snow/snowboards/sl-split

Shredngar then went on to say:

"I checked the facts, which you should do on their web page."

Huh.

Factual accuracy matters on forums that the public uses to inform back-country gear choices that are consequential from both safety and financial standpoints; we owe it to each other to get our facts right.

To the O.P.'s topic, the SL has deep sidecut. Other attributes being equal, a board with such deep sidecut will be grabbier and less stable on steep, icy, heavily-textured volcano exposures than one with a longer radius sidecut and more evenly-distributed edge pressure (like Buell's board).

- Taylor

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 Post subject: Re: Lightweight Magnetraction
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 4:37 pm 
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Posts: 636
Taylor wrote:
Shredgnar said:

"The SL split actually has much less sidecut than the SL solid."

This is a factually incorrect statement. The 164 SL radius is 7.88; the 163 SLS radius is 7.93. One is not "much less" than the other; they are virtually the same. See http://neversummer.com/snow/snowboards/sl and http://neversummer.com/snow/snowboards/sl-split

Shredngar then went on to say:

"I checked the facts, which you should do on their web page."

Huh.

Factual accuracy matters on forums that the public uses to inform back-country gear choices that are consequential from both safety and financial standpoints; we owe it to each other to get our facts right.

To the O.P.'s topic, the SL has deep sidecut. Other attributes being equal, a board with such deep sidecut will be grabbier and less stable on steep, icy, heavily-textured volcano exposures than one with a longer radius sidecut and more evenly-distributed edge pressure (like Buell's board).

- Taylor


You guys are relentless.

Seriously, let's go ride someday.


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 Post subject: Re: Lightweight Magnetraction
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:02 pm 
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Posts: 73
Location: New Hampshire
moridinbg wrote:
NS has no Magnetraction, but the Vario Grip isn't much worse than it. And the carbonium topsheet + rubber layer makes wonders. I rode a 2011/2012 161 Summit Split for a week on pretty much only icy runs in Les 2 Alps in March this year and it rode way more stable vibration-wise than any board I have ever ridden. The wide nose and narrow tail were a bit of a problem, but then the SL is twintip.


Ice is something I ride a lot in my neck of the woods. I have a Solution 163w, I had a Mountain twin 160w and I have a NS Legacy( aka wide SL) 159w The Solution is the best holding on icy steeps but the Legacy is def no slouch its just as good ( if not better) as the mountain twin (that has mangetraction.) I have ridden all of these on bullet proof boilerplate new england ice and I think the SL will work well for you. One of myfriends is an instructior at wildcat ski area a place that has a rep for being very icy in a region that is known for icy trails and he rides a SL.

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 Post subject: Re: Lightweight Magnetraction
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:03 pm 
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Location: Salida, Flagstaff
We'll shred trees; I'll buy beer afterword.

Edit: And, shredgnar, I honestly look forward to doing that. Shred on brother, and peace.

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173 Rossi Race DIY Swallowtail Split


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 Post subject: Re: Lightweight Magnetraction
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:14 pm 
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Location: Colorado
Taylor wrote:
We'll shred trees; I'll buy beer afterword.



I want beer :D

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 Post subject: variable radius sidecuts
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:15 pm 
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Location: powder central, bc, canuckistan
aw shit heres that guy again.... drinkin ciders no less!!
with all due respect.... and apologies for takin the thread drift and :deadhorse: with it

Barrows said 'the NS SL split has a very deep sidecut, about the deepeset you can find on any board of this length. The spec is for 7.93 m. radius on the largest size (163x)..... I would consider anything under a 10 m. radius to be a "deep" sidecut board (yes, including my Venture Storm at ~9.3 m.).... Very deep sidecuts are great for intermediate riders, carving on groomers at low speeds, but really do not help experienced riders ride well in backcountry snow conditions.'

i was a bit of a maths geek in a previous life, sorry.... but
if you keep in mind the description Jake provided from NS about vario grip, it clearly describes a variable radius sidecut. the spec 7.9 m given is 'a multiple radius average' and you cant compare that number to Ventures 9.3 or Priors 11, its like apples n oranges....
the 7.9 is an average of the variety of radii used, and you could only compare that number to those numbers from other sidecuts with the same variables in proportion (other NS decks).

if you want the average radius over the length of the sidecut, do the maths on the depth of the sidecut (23.5mm) over the effective edge (1270mm), and that depth on a simple (single radius) sidecut would indicate a radius of about 8.6 m. that would be a 'deep sidecut' (Barrows) but in terms of ride characteristics its still incomparable to the NS shape... considering Taylors "Other attributes being equal", theyre not!
its like
:disco: to :rock:
:thumbsup: to :thumbsdown:
:band: to :disco:
:doobie: to :guinness:
in contrast to the characteristics of 'very deep sidecuts' Barrows describes, and speaking from experience with the NS SL split, id say the board rides great on all snow conditions and at any speed, its an excellent all around shredder, good az any other for a volcano or whatever else ya throw yerself at
:drinks:

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 Post subject: Re: Lightweight Magnetraction
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:29 pm 
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barrows wrote:
Taylor wrote:
We'll shred trees; I'll buy beer afterword.


I want beer :D


Then you too will have to come shred trees, Barrows. Or cinder cones. :)

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Craig Kelly is my co-pilot
195 Glissade Big Gun
187 Donek Custom Split
181 Venture Storm Solid and Split
173 Rossi Race DIY Swallowtail Split


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 Post subject: Re: Lightweight Magnetraction
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:00 am 
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barrows wrote:
Taylor wrote:
We'll shred trees; I'll buy beer afterword.



I want beer :D


ME TOO...oh wait its only 07:00 :(

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165 Venture Divide, Spark Franken-Burner, LaSportiva Spantik
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 Post subject: Re: Lightweight Magnetraction
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:57 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 10:05 am
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Location: Colorado
karkis, thanks for weighing in with the maths! I understand that the SL uses a multiple radius sidecut (so does the Venture, although likely of a different nature). I am not sure if NS describes exactly what the nature of "Vario Grip" is: in other words, where along the edge length it is a tighter radius, and where along the edge length it is a lesser radius, knowing this info would help for those who are really techy on the matter.
Of course, how the board actually rides in the real world is better information, especially if anyone compares it to something with a significantly longer radius (10+ m) on the snow conditions in question (frozen surfaces).
As you point out, there are more variables to edge grip than sidecut radius alone: rocker profile, flex profile, board damping, stance position, rider weight, and even boot stiffness will all be factors.
In its favor to improve edge grip on frozen surfaces, the SL is reputed to be a very damp board, and has rocker between the feet. Both of these factors will improve the edge grip, as the damping stops vibration, and the rocker between the feet will somewhat compensate for the deep sidecut radius (deep sidecuts concentrate edge pressure at the tip and tail, resulting in less grip under the feet where it can be controlled, and rocker between the feet brings some of that pressure back between the feet).
My experience with much longer radii sidecuts (14m-20m) has shown me that these boards really have a big advantage on steep frozen surfaces, but the differences between something like a NS SL and a Venture Storm (both with sub 10m radius sidecuts) may come down to other design factors, as the sidecuts are not that different.

I am not trying to be critical of the NS SL, I am sure it is great board for many riders, and many riding conditions. But, for finding grip in frozen situations, which is a special situation the OP is asking about, I would recommend a board with a much longer sidecut radius, and good damping. The best bet for longer radii are Winterstick, furberg, Chimera, and various customs.

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