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 Post subject: Re: MTNAPPROACH pro team has some heavy hitters
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 8:05 pm 
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Location: Green Mountains
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If that ratio of 1:6.4 is true, then 15 pounds on my feet while skinning (typical ski/splitboard weight) is like (15x6.4=) 96 pounds on my back??? I mean come on that's demonstrably untrue - I cannot skin (or stand) with 96 lbs on my back, so I call bullshit.


Thanks for the input on that ratio. I've seen that argument come up before for this topic. Just my opinion and a little guessing here, but wouldn't that ratio completely change with the volume underfoot on a hiking boot and the volume under foot when skinning? The distribution of weight over the ski is going to be much greater than just a boot.


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 Post subject: Re: MTNAPPROACH pro team has some heavy hitters
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 8:22 pm 
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Location: Colorado
The weight on the foot research is based on hiking, not skinning. The reason it is better to have less weight on the foot, is that when the foot is lifted off of the ground, energy is expended in both the lifting of the foot, and in controlling the lower leg in 3 dimensions. The muscles must work to both lift the weight of the foot, and to control the leg in space.
Skinning is quite a bit different when done correctly: the weight of the board is mostly supported by the snow surface, and the weight of the board in space is also supported by the snow surface. The weight of the boot and binding (in a soft boot system), however, is lifted with each step, but still, the skin track does a lot of the work to control everything in three dimensions. Of course, each ski is "lifted" the distance uphill one travels with each step, but his distance is much less than if one lifted the entire ski off of the snow surface with each step, and then set it back down again.
One of the advantages of touring with a hard boot and Dynafit toe piece is that the weight lifted with each step is only that of the boot, and not the binding as with soft boot set ups-in this case, having the binding in the pack is indeed an advantage in efficiency.
Anyone who claims putting a 12 pound awkward, board on ones back, and then skinning with a tiny "ski" is an advantage in efficiency is really stretching their perception of reality. I am fine with the whole Mt Approach set up, but their ridiculous marketing claims are entirely incorrect, and I find them rather self serving, and insulting (boardering on slanderous?) to those who use and produce splitboard equipment.

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 Post subject: Re: MTNAPPROACH pro team has some heavy hitters
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:04 pm 
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Location: Green Mountains
I think the marketing of this product to the splitboard community was handled very poorly. I feel I have a right to say that, I use my splitboard and I love it. I'm sure we make up a very large piece of the backcountry boarding community pie.....pie :drool: And this product should have been introduced as a piece of quiver rather than an alternative...just my :twocents:
Anyway if somebody told me I had to use these or slowshoes, I think it's pretty clear which I would grab. Thats where the volume under your feet and ability to skin would make the added weight of the board on back "feel lighter" than on snow shoes.


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 Post subject: Re: MTNAPPROACH pro team has some heavy hitters
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:47 pm 
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Location: powder central, bc, canuckistan
i actually used approach skis for a bunch of years, my fave pair were 70cms snollerblades, pretty fat like 120 underfoot, only ever had penetration issues in early season facets, really. i was pretty sure the light weight underfoot (they were just round a kilo per ski, with skins, voile brackets/plates n chopped binders) made up for the board on the back. i wasnt riding with the crew im with now, but always with strong tourists and i managed to get more than my fair share out front breakin track, including most of a ~100km tour from jumbo over to and all round the bugaboos. just sayin approach skis are totally viable as a touring kit.
the ability to strip skins is crucial tho, and getting the board off the back is next level. ya dont notice how much snow youve been brushing off the trees and down onto the back of yer neck, until you stop.
i can relate to Iguchis comment too, i think the key words in his statement are 'a splitboard.... my snowboard', as in he doesnt have a split....
i bin there, fer years n years i was like, 'you take a board thats designed to break in half and ya want me to go deep in the backcountry with it??' :scratch:
i was wrong tho, sometimes ya gotta go to know, splitboards are the answer

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 Post subject: Re: MTNAPPROACH pro team has some heavy hitters
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:59 am 
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Location: Colorado
Karkis is right. I even used used snow shoes for a number years, because of the "fear" that a splitboard would not cut it for steep lines with less than ideal snow. I did a 3 week expedition in the St. Elias with snowshoes and a 170 on my back, how much more we could have done with splits... Same thing on Mt. Columbia in the Canadian Rockies...
I first got a split for riding pow, 'cause I figured the riding performance would be fine for that, once I had one, I realized its capabilities were unlimited.
But now there is so much evidence (movies, etc) of the unlimited potential of splits...

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 Post subject: Re: MTNAPPROACH pro team has some heavy hitters
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:44 pm 
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Location: New Castle, Colorado
Here is the vintage version of the MTN_APPROACH:

RARE TRAK BUSHWHACKER 150cm ROUGH BACKCOUNTRY SKIS w/ SILVRETTA cross country

Image

SEE:http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-TRAK-BUSHWHACKER-150cm-ROUGH-BACKCOUNTRY-SKIS-w-SILVRETTA-cross-country-/380423812830?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item589306b6de#ht_510wt_833


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 Post subject: Re: MTNAPPROACH pro team has some heavy hitters
PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 7:51 am 
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Location: British Columbia
The video on mtnapproach homepage shows a split going together quicker than skis if you look close :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: MTNAPPROACH pro team has some heavy hitters
PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:14 am 
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Location: Squaw Valley
Has it struck anyone else that this is entirely marketed to snowboarders, and not a single word for skiers is mentioned. If there argument concerns, being able to choose any board/ski from your quiver, or not using skins, or time to transition (this one really just goes for AT bindings in which the ski must be remove to transition), or loss of control while skiing, or initial cost, wouldn't it be just as valid for a skier, or someone looking into backcountry skiing?


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 Post subject: Re: MTNAPPROACH pro team has some heavy hitters
PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:11 am 
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This thread is getting super negative on a forum member here that has shared some cool TR's and other fun stuff to check out.
I'm usually pretty stoked to come on this site and visit w/ some cool people. pretty disappointed reading thru this thread.

If you don't have something nice to say - keep it to yourself. Opinions are fine but there is no need to shit on Mtn Approach skis.
If it's not your thing don't buy it.

I don't know this member personally but I'd think that we'd maybe be a little cooler to one of the members on here.
:guinness: :doobie: :thumpsup: :D

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 Post subject: Re: MTNAPPROACH pro team has some heavy hitters
PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:22 am 
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mtnrider wrote:
This thread is getting super negative on a forum member here that has shared some cool TR's and other fun stuff to check out.
I'm usually pretty stoked to come on this site and visit w/ some cool people. pretty disappointed reading thru this thread.

If you don't have something nice to say - keep it to yourself. Opinions are fine but there is no need to shit on Mtn Approach skis.
If it's not your thing don't buy it.

I don't know this member personally but I'd think that we'd maybe be a little cooler to one of the members on here.
:guinness: :doobie: :thumpsup: :D



I disagree. I do not see any personal attacks in this thread, just a reasonable discussion of the merits of the Mt Approach system. Conversely, the Mt Approach marketing does suggest that splitboards are not as capable as solid boards, and I feel this marketing approach is doing a disservice to the backcountry riding community. While those riders who regularly use splitboards know what they are capable of, there are riders out there "on the fence" so to speak, trying to decide if a splitboard is for them. Along comes Mt Approach, suggesting that splitboards do not ride very well-this marketing approach is perpetuating a myth which is damaging to the splitboard industry, and to those riders who might be trying to decide on a splitboard.
I would suggest that Mt Approach stick to the merits of their system, and not suggest (mistakenly) that splitboards have some inherent limitation.
Personally, I view the Mt Approach system as ideally suited for the rider who wants to tour a short way from the road, build a kicker with a pow landing, and then drop all their gear, put in a boot pack, and session the kicker. For this I agree that a solid freestyle board has advantages in terms of swing weight if one is trying to get that last rotation on their 1080; otherwise, for big backcountry days and lines, a splitboard is a much better choice.

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http://protectourwinters.org/
http://14ersnowboardproject.homestead.com/


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 Post subject: Re: MTNAPPROACH pro team has some heavy hitters
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 7:23 pm 
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I know at least one of the MTN Approach riders has posted some TRs/photos/vid in the last couple years and I'm curious why he isn't coming out on this discussion?
I agree with Barrows. I've really enjoyed the discussion, and I agree that most of the claims made by MTN Approach are inaccurate at best.

mtnrider: how can you expect users of this site to not question erroneous claims made about splitboarding? I think this discussion is more about the marketing than it is about the product. Your opinion is welcome as well, but you have to realize you offered absolutely nothing to the discussion at hand in your post. You say this discussion disappointed you... if you want to talk about disappointing, read the blurb on MTN Approach's homepage. I am thoroughly disappointed that someone would use outdated stereotypes and mischaracterizations to help sell their product.

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 Post subject: Re: MTNAPPROACH pro team has some heavy hitters
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 10:04 pm 
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Location: Park City
nickstayner wrote:
I know at least one of the MTN Approach riders has posted some TRs/photos/vid in the last couple years and I'm curious why he isn't coming out on this discussion?


Neil? might be because he's camped out on a glacier in alaska...

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 Post subject: Re: MTNAPPROACH pro team has some heavy hitters
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:46 am 
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Thanks for the banter, I'm well aware of the advantages / disadvantages of a split vs. a solid. If you don't like the concept or products then don't buy them, it's a free market. Over 800 views to this thread though, thanks for the exposure.
Image

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