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 Post subject: The beheading of the Wasatch: more doom and gloom
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:46 pm 
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Location: Wasatch
some good(horrible) stuff on Andrew McLean's website. http://straightchuter.com/2012/02/wasatch-prepares-for-beheading/
fuck the interconnect.

and for those of you that don't get it and are thinking what's the big deal?
just think once the wasatch is ruined and we have no touring access, all of us will be moving to your mountain range and you don't want that do you?

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 Post subject: Re: The beheading of the Wasatch: more doom and gloom
PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:52 am 
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Location: Durango, CO
wasatch surf wrote:
all of us will be moving to your mountain range
Stop the beheading! Stop the interconnect! Save the San Juans, um, I mean the Wasatch!


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 Post subject: Re: The beheading of the Wasatch: more doom and gloom
PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:54 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 5:58 pm
Posts: 401
Location: slc
Holy sh*t, I just saw that map on straightchuter's blog that shows various proposed developments attached to this bill. There are countem TWELVE new ski lift alignments shown. The bill is H.R. 3452 the “Wasatch Range Recreation Access Enhancement Act.”

I sure hope this bill gets shot down. Specific reasons I oppose this bill include:

-The bill would violate local Master Plans
-Negative impacts to watershed
-Negative impacts to backcountry recreation
-The bill would result in the loss of the public's use of Federal land
-The local public has indicated overwhelming opposition to such development
-Visual resources would be affected
-The transportation studies referenced in the bill, claiming that increased tourism and hospitality industry development would decrease pollution, are inherently suspect

If this concerns you too, consider communicating your thoughts here: https://naturalresourcesforms.house.gov ... fault.aspx


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 Post subject: Re: The beheading of the Wasatch: more doom and gloom
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:13 am 
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Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2004 6:27 pm
Posts: 1449
Location: Denver
There are companies that definitely have a dog in this fight along the Wasatch. If they truly are against it companies like Voile, BD, Backcountry.com, should let the state know that in no uncertain terms they are leaving Utah if this goes through. I'm sure Colorado, Washington, Nevada, California, and several other places would be more than happy to have these companies set up shop in their state. No doubt that this sort of end result would put the brakes on this proposed expansion.


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 Post subject: Re: The beheading of the Wasatch: more doom and gloom
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:35 am 
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Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:10 pm
Posts: 1410
Location: UT
Right now things are a little more complicated than just the Wasatch/Utah when it comes to outdoor recreation based companies opposing these actions.

BD (along with many who annually inject cash into Utah's economy via Outdoor Retailer) has taken a lead against opening the broadly named red Rock Wilderness to resource extraction in both Utah and Colorado. This of course is where it gets divisive among the ranks of our own sport, because many of our splitboarding peers support resource extraction and oppose both protection and regulations... Anyways not to get off topic and onto that slippery slope, but I wanted to point out that BD has been quite vocal on both matters.

Personally, I'm a cynic who no longer believes the system (regulation and due process) can balance the game between the haves and have nots... Ultimately if the system is bypassed (as it frequently is), what recourse do we have but criminal acts. I'll site Tim DeChristopher as a recent example of someone, who having not the means to play by the rules (e.g. Millions in disposable income) chose to go to jail as his only option.

What I'm trying to say is I truly believe many if not all these projects will go forward in some form and no amount of talking, putting stickers on your car, or making Facebook posts will stop it. Sure I'll continue to do these things to some extent. Hell I hope I'm wrong, and I'd like nothing more than everyone who reads this to look me up ten years from now to tell me what a foolish windbag I was...

:twocents:

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Experts tell me I'm not a serious rider; riding boards that are too long with the incorrect boot and binding setup and I'm not having fun...


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 Post subject: Re: The beheading of the Wasatch: more doom and gloom
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:08 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 3:44 pm
Posts: 536
Location: Flagstaff, AZ
I've come to the conclusion that Utah legislators are total whores. I've been watching the the plans, oppositions, fights, suits, bumper sticker politics going on for at least a decade. It's happening on so many fronts: stream accress for fishing, atv/ohv in SE Utah, and now it's skiing in the Wasatch.

Here's what I don't get: What do legislators hope to gain from any of this? If stream access is limited, dyi fisherman won't fish in Utah anymore. If atv/ohv access is increased, the impacts to mtb'ers and hikers, and thus they won't visit SE UT anymore. And if backcountry skiing access is severely limited, as proposed, around the SLC area of the Wasatch, the area won't see many travelling backcountry users anymore. And worst of all, the area may see residents, who shrug off all the other bullshit of living in UT just to live so close to possibly-best-in-the-world-backcountry, leave the state for good. I know some of you UT splitters who fall into this category.

What good do these trade offs serve the state? All of these trades in my mind, only lead to decreased property tax and sales tax revenue, which I'll assume the state can't afford.

Why doesn't the general public of UT get upset about this? Hold on, I think I know why. Two things: First, the vast majority of the general public of Utah doesn't use the public lands the way we do. Secondly, the vast majority of the general public of Utah is Mormon, and Mormons have historically been suspicious of (if not completely hate) the fedral government, and therefore will do exactly the opposite of the intentions of the fedral governtment. I'm sorry to make this a culturally based arguement, as I know some UT splitters may be Mormon and many have Mormon friends. However, I know for fact this is part of the Mormon culture, and therefore part of the Utah legislative culture.

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 Post subject: Re: The beheading of the Wasatch: more doom and gloom
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:12 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2011 4:27 pm
Posts: 596
Location: Rainier Beach
You are all correct, it's irrational that Utah would pursue development tracks that would harm their long term tax base and economic viability. The only rational arguments for increased development in wild ares are (short term) economic ones that benefit only a few.

However, as we are all painfully aware, political conservatives do not use rational arguments to further their causes. They have found that using the politics of fear and deception have enabled them and their development buddies to get rich while keeping those politicians in power who stand by while the land gets raped.

Why in the world would the ski area lobby oppose climate change legislation? Becuase those who currently own ski areas don't give 2 shits about the next generation of ski area owners or trying to create a long term industry. It's all about how much they can get, right now.

Irrational, yes, but oh so true.

It's gonna take far more drastic solutions than electing democrats and affixing bumper stickers to our Subarus if we really want true wilderness protection.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cascadia_( ... e_movement)

:thatrocks:


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 Post subject: Re: The beheading of the Wasatch: more doom and gloom
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:15 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 3:44 pm
Posts: 536
Location: Flagstaff, AZ
This shit really irritates me, and I've got a couple things to add.

In the bigger picture context, all 4 Republican presidential candidates have verbally stated that they don't know why the federal government owns so much land, and have so far advocated for the outright sale of public lands for all sorts of private ownership, including all manners of rescource extraction, and resorts which I would assume includes this mess of the Interconnect. If anyone of these (ahem, idiots) gets elected I guarantee that attitude will be reflected in internal administration agendas in the form of appointments of Secretary of the Interior, Director of the USDA, and on a local level, appointments of Supervisors of local National Forests and BLM officials. If the currrent officials in these positions aren't of the Republican mindset, they WILL be replaced with people who are.

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"Do not follow where the path may lead. Go where there is no path... and leave a trail." --Today's fortune cookie.


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 Post subject: Re: The beheading of the Wasatch: more doom and gloom
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 4:26 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 8:52 am
Posts: 118
Wasatch Super Resort baby!!!!!!!!!!! Why do you think we need a new airport??

This shit will get slammed through with no public input in backroom deals. The gondola thing is the tip of this iceberg. We are heading for a mountain Disneyland for rich fuckers. Utah will not be for the people that live here.


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 Post subject: Re: The beheading of the Wasatch: more doom and gloom
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 5:26 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:10 pm
Posts: 1410
Location: UT
ricorides wrote:
This shit really irritates me, and I've got a couple things to add.

In the bigger picture context, all 4 Republican presidential candidates have verbally stated that they don't know why the federal government owns so much land, and have so far advocated for the outright sale of public lands for all sorts of private ownership, including all manners of rescource extraction, and resorts which I would assume includes this mess of the Interconnect. If anyone of these (ahem, idiots) gets elected I guarantee that attitude will be reflected in internal administration agendas in the form of appointments of Secretary of the Interior, Director of the USDA, and on a local level, appointments of Supervisors of local National Forests and BLM officials. If the currrent officials in these positions aren't of the Republican mindset, they WILL be replaced with people who are.

Of the countless irrational drivel spewed by the followers of these greedy thieving bastards, one irks me to no fucking end... The "Don't lock up all our land" outcry...
In the simplest terms public land is public land whether it be state or federal. BUT thats not the rub...
The rub is these nitwits want to turn public land over to private individuals... In other words it will become PRIVATE FUCKING PROPERTY! (aka It WILL be locked up)... Fucking infuriating shit...
Okay I'm gonna go douse myself in :guinness: and set myself afire with :doobie: becasue this is just making me :x and the :deadhorse: has been reduced to a fine powder...

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Experts tell me I'm not a serious rider; riding boards that are too long with the incorrect boot and binding setup and I'm not having fun...


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 Post subject: Re: The beheading of the Wasatch: more doom and gloom
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 6:32 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:32 pm
Posts: 355
clearly its all bad news for backcountry space, but I don't believe any of the other proposals are attached to the canyons-solitude endrun bill. AS I understand it, the proposals are still coming one by one, and a special bill through Congress is probably the only way to get around the current forest service administration and the watershed restrictions. I imagine there is probably only a real small % folks electing republican reps and senators on the forum, so why preach to the choir.

I get why alta would want to develop all of the upper LC canyon, but canyons thinking must be based on the eventual real estate development on all the lower angle terrain between solitude and Canyons after the "low impact" tramway, It would be like a whole new white pine subdivision or whatever it is called once the economy gets rumbling again. Maybe they would buy Solitude in the long run. I see bridges with silly crests and logos over the road already.


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 Post subject: Re: The beheading of the Wasatch: more doom and gloom
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:49 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:07 pm
Posts: 349
Location: Green Mountains
The fight for American forests has been ongoing since the turn of the 20th century. Fortunately we had representation from folks such as Theodore Roosevelt and Gifford Pinchot whom fought to preserve the forests. If you read about it this was an ugly time. Luckily they preserved some lands or "we the people" would have wiped out the environment. Whether it was timbering then or now fracking and destructive tourism, we must keep the lands out of the hands of the greedy. Keep this in mind when you head to the polls, and if you don't vote, do it! :twocents:


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 Post subject: Re: The beheading of the Wasatch: more doom and gloom
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 12:17 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:15 pm
Posts: 294
Location: Washington
Yeah I don't get it. Your powder is too light. Nobody needs powder that light. You live in a theocracy. C'mon. And don't get me started about that freeeaky continental snowpack. The Alps have chairlifts all over the place. Isn't that generally thought to be a good thing?

The carrying capacity of cascadian shred habitat is huge. Especially at Baker. Which is legendary. Everybody go to Baker.

kidding dudes.


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