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 Post subject: Re: 12/13 stuff youll like
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:22 pm 
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ChadHam wrote:
The Carbon Solution is 200 Grams lighter than the regular version.

CP


That's it? A buddy who has ridden a 161 prototype said it's OVER a pound lighter than the original solution. Might not be worth the rumored very expensive price tag over the normal version. If it's a full pound lighter then yes.


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 Post subject: Re: 12/13 stuff youll like
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:46 pm 
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BGnight wrote:
ChadHam wrote:
The Carbon Solution is 200 Grams lighter than the regular version.

CP


That's it? A buddy who has ridden a 161 prototype said it's OVER a pound lighter than the original solution. Might not be worth the rumored very expensive price tag over the normal version. If it's a full pound lighter then yes.


A pound is 453 grams... Looks like the carbon Jones is a little less than 1/2 lighter than the regular version at 200 grams less. Prior claims average weight savings of 1 lb 5 ozs for full carbon Priors.
I guess we will find out the real details in the summer...
BG, do you know what the premium is for carbon Solutions?

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 Post subject: Re: 12/13 stuff youll like
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 3:09 pm 
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I don't. My buddy wasn't sure either but he heard some pretty big numbers thrown around. The board is supposed to ride insane. I ran into a ripper at Squaw last year on the lift who was riding Ryland Bell's flagship carbon proto. This guy was an experienced pro caliber rider who did well in the Rahlves Banzai comps and he said it was the sickest board he's ever been on. Watching him ride it I didn't doubt him. Now we just need a hybrid of a Solution/Furberg in carbon!!! Need to ride a furberg damnit


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 Post subject: Re: 12/13 stuff youll like
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:20 pm 
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barrows wrote:
KGN wrote:
Quote:
Kind of makes me wonder if the Jones Carbons are actually full carbon laminate, or just one layer of carbon combined with glass... The Priors are full carbon for +$200 on any split. This is a pretty fair price as anyone who has ever purchased carbon fiber and triax glass would know. Does anyone know the retail on the Jones Carbons?


I wonder how the carbon Priors ride? I had a look at them and picked a few up and compared, definitely a nice weight savings difference. I am wondering what they did to increase the durability of the boards, as I know they were reluctant to release them early on when they first put out a series of carbons. Mainly I am wondering how a carbon board does when you are touring in uneven terrain, and put a big bend in the skis.



I know people who tour hard on full carbon skis (dps) and have had no problems. I am not aware of a single reason why carbon would have any problem versus glass, as long as the layup is done well. There are lots of carbon products out there which are plenty durable: Tennis Rackets, Golf Clubs, bikes, and if you are concerned about deep flex being a problem, consider that fly rods are carbon.
As long as a manufacturer uses carbon fiber correctly, a full carbon laminate board should be tougher, and last longer (retain its flex properties) than an equivalent board made with glass.
Additionally, as carbon fiber by nature is a more damp material than glass (specifically why it is used for flyrods) a carbon boards ride can be very damp, without having to add metal or excessive rubber layers to the layup.


Sounds right, no broken flyrods from me anyways :thumpsup: I had the impression that carbon can be brittle, hence my fear of the big bend in the skis.

I suppose I was wondering why Venture feels they are not durable enough to make yet, while other companies seem fine with them. I am not too hard on my gear anyways, as I am a lightweight. Seems my Prior has been holding up just fine, and I have hit some massive sharks under the snow with little base damage. I don't have any real reservations about using their carbon version.


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 Post subject: Re: 12/13 stuff youll like
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:06 am 
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barrows wrote:
Jim,

Thanks for posting up those weights, are they manufacturers claimed weights, or have you made some measurements yourself, or are they from a verified third party? I am sometimes skeptical of manufacturers claimed weights, my experience wiht bikes has proven that the claimed weights are often quite "optimistic"!
In any case, it does seem that the Jones is likely only partial carbon.
Agreed on ride quality being what matters, I love my Venture in that sense, and it is certainly not a light board-I reduce a lot of weight with my boot/binding set up though. I hope that someday Klem will relent to market pressures and experiment with full carbon layups-a full carbon Venture could be a wonderful thing.


The solution 161 weight was measured on an accurate eletronic system early in the season (zerog shop in Chamonix) as I couldn't find anything in the specs sheet.
The prior weights are what is actually displayed on their websites (Actual weight is in grams...)

This year my boots & bindings are sparks and it changed my life, this is not ultra light but light enough and certainly stiff enough for me to finally use my split in "special conditons" (like 45-55 degrees couloirs with cliffs underneath...) - I never had this level of confidence in my splits before (voilé ST 178 and Mojo RX).

About the carbon solution, if it's 1-2 pounds lighter (±500-1000grams) and if ride is improved, I guess I'd give a shot but I'm afraid it'll only be partial carbon to improve stiffness (the same reason carbon is beeing added to the flagship) and not to save weight...


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 Post subject: Re: 12/13 stuff youll like
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 8:14 pm 
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barrows wrote:
JIn Kazama wrote:
Prior carbon splits are 600g lighter... It's kinda weird the solution only saves 200g going carbon...

Well, I guess I'll have to compare total board weight to make my choice...


Kind of makes me wonder if the Jones Carbons are actually full carbon laminate, or just one layer of carbon combined with glass... The Priors are full carbon for +$200 on any split. This is a pretty fair price as anyone who has ever purchased carbon fiber and triax glass would know. Does anyone know the retail on the Jones Carbons?



Next years Carbon solution is set to sell for $1,100, Flagship carbon $799... Looks pretty sick!

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 Post subject: Re: 12/13 stuff youll like
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:12 am 
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north face ABS vest? sounds interesting.

ah, those pow sticks & splitboards look delicious!

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 Post subject: Re: 12/13 stuff youll like
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:45 am 
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Well the voile looks interesting... no topo graphic at least? (mojo rx or?)


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 Post subject: Re: 12/13 stuff youll like
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:46 am 
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There is a big difference between just a carbon topsheet, and full carbon layup. I still think it's ridiculous to charge a few hundred dollars more for full carbon construction. I recentlyt bought a few rolls of the stuff, and really it's not that much more expensive than fibreglass if you calculate it per board. We're talking about $25 more material cost, and the contruction is pretty much the same for carbon.

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 Post subject: Re: 12/13 stuff youll like
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:11 am 
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ieism wrote:
There is a big difference between just a carbon topsheet, and full carbon layup. I still think it's ridiculous to charge a few hundred dollars more for full carbon construction. I recentlyt bought a few rolls of the stuff, and really it's not that much more expensive than fibreglass if you calculate it per board. We're talking about $25 more material cost, and the contruction is pretty much the same for carbon.


honestly, I would like to know your carbon supplier if you think you can purchase enough to do a full board layup for only $25 more than glass!
My experience with purchasing CF is that it is quite a bit more expensive than that... what type are you purchasing? Uni, biax woven fabric, or? And is it prepreg or dry? Prior has not revealed what they are using, but I must assume that they use multiple layers of uni, in a tri or quad axial layup-there is no way they could achieve a pound of weight savings if they were using a woven material.
In any case, I feel the $200 up charge at Prior is totally reasonable for over a pound of weight saved and improved performance. Remember, the additional cost must cover: the costs of the R & D of figuring out the exact layup necessary to achieve the desired feel (means lots of prototype building) and the additional costs of working with CF and stocking it. If material costs alone were what controlled the price of anything, most things we purchase would be much cheaper.
BTW, most manufacturers of retail goods use a 5x to 10 x multiplier for material costs to retail price calcs. So if the the additional costs of CF per board was $50 (closer to reality in my experience than your $25), 5*50=$250 upcharge...

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 Post subject: Re: 12/13 stuff youll like
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:10 am 
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Anyone hear if Jones will be coming out with a 160 cm Hoovercraft split next year?


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 Post subject: Re: 12/13 stuff youll like
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:24 pm 
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Really wish Salomon would create and sell a Sick Stick Split


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 Post subject: Re: 12/13 stuff youll like
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:20 pm 
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PUNKY wrote:
Really wish Salomon would create and sell a Sick Stick Split


+ 1!

I love my Sick Stick. A "Sick Split Stick" would be awesome!


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