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 Post subject: Re: Spark Edison Binding
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 5:53 pm 
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Great video of a pack working with a snowboard attached. This is the BCA pack with less float then the abs.

http://www.tetongravity.com/blogs/Video ... 741381.htm


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 Post subject: Re: Spark Edison Binding
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:01 pm 
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One video does not make a proof. Glad to see it worked for her and I hope it's true that it will always keep you up near the surface however I'd like to see more stats (even crash test dummy tests) on this before giving complete faith in the abs. Even the companies that make them state you shouldn't rely on them alone. It also assumes that you were aware enough to pull the cord! The avalung would work very well too if you got it into your mouth in time.

I still say a system that allows you to get out your bindings if needed is necessary regardless of how successful an airbag might end up being. How well does an air bag work in a tree well?

Clearly I'm in a minority and thus the slow progression towards such bindings.


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 Post subject: Re: Spark Edison Binding
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:36 pm 
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Location: California
Totally agreed with your post barrows...I was just playing with my comment. You're right, many riders have not tried a modded HB set-up like yours. I know I haven't, my limited experience has been with a lowa ski boot and bomber bindings. The challenge for this segment imho is the up front cost of HB boots and the modding required. It just isn't as plug and play and softboots and straps. Also, even with a modded set-up the ride is going to be different and I think a lot of riders aren't willing to change the traditional feel. There's no doubt HBs can provide some advantages and I would like to see the segment catered to better in the future. I think if a ski boot maker where to commit to a specialized snowboard boot the binding makers would be more willing to adapt their systems and baseplates to work with HBs.


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 Post subject: Re: Spark Edison Binding
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:54 pm 
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Location: Colorado
No worries Chris, I understood the tone of your post, and was just taking the opportunity to try and explain a little for the benefit of those without the experience.
I think we are mostly in agreement, but on the difference in feel, I think it is important that people understand a couple of things: if one is a little creative, and willing to put in the time to modify a boot like the TLT5, one can achieve virtually any feel they are after. Personally, I was trying to get a feel very similar to my Driver Xs, but with more consistent flex performance, and a little more even progression in the flex (as opposed to the crease/fold flex of soft boots).
I compared the flexes of the two setups (Driver X in a C-14 baseplate with team skybacks, vs. modded TLT5 in my race plate mod bindings) by carpet testing with one of each set up on each foot.
As an example, I tested a Switch step in setup "back in the day" for awhile, and I would describe the difference between the Switch set up and a stiffer soft boot and straps, as bigger than the deifference between my TLT5s and my Driver Xs.
Of course, if a company like Dynafit perceived a market, with their technology, they could develop a "hard" type boot with any kind of feel they desire-the technology used to develop their AT boots is very highly advanced, and makes soft boot development seem like a cheap joke. Unfortunately, Frederico of Dynafit suggested to me that the development costs for gound up, snowboard specific boot would be between 600,000 and 1,000,000 euro!
So, it seems clear to me that modding the new breed of superlight AT boots is the only reasonable way to go forward-but Will could produce a binding very easily, for little cost, as what is needed in the binding is pretty simple. The other benefit Will's approach to bindings could provide, would be a lower boot to board distance: with his CNC capabilities, he could easily build a plate binding where the boot rests directly on the baseplate-just like a soft set up. My set up, while very low for a plate, is still a little higher than with a Spark or Karakoram and soft boot.

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 Post subject: Re: pics from SIA
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:13 pm 
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Location: Lethbridge, AB
barrows wrote:
If I were to dream, all I would want is a lightweight, low profile, plate binding option for the Edison interface!


Me too!

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 Post subject: Re: pics from SIA
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:24 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2011 1:56 am
Posts: 20
treepilot wrote:
barrows wrote:
If I were to dream, all I would want is a lightweight, low profile, plate binding option for the Edison interface!


Me too!


Same here! I guess that offering hard boots with a leather overlay would ease the transfer for many.. Sorry for the offtopic. Stoked for the Edison!


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 Post subject: Re: Spark Edison Binding
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:43 am 
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Posts: 636
wasatch surf wrote:
Did someone at Voile fuck your little sister or something? seriously dude we all agree that Voile hasn't done much to improve upon their original designs, and yeah it is going to bite them in the ass very soon. But do you really need to make a big deal about it every time their name is brought up? Oh and as far as royalties, if you think for one second that Spark or Karakoram wouldn't charge other companies for the rights to use their system and patent you are fucking crazy.

Plus I know that you wanted to see "voile and their shitty patent" go, but I think it will have a place in splitboarding for at least a few more years. it is the only system harbooter's can use at this time(yeah yeah I know hardboots suck etc..), and it is WAY cheaper than the K or Edison system. The edison is great for DIY it looks like, but then again what DIY first time split builder will want to pay $600-$700 just for an interface?

I would love to get rid of pucks though, hope the Edison is a good first step towards that.


Nope, it's just fun to watch how long it will take for you to type up your inevitable Voile blow job. (You are so predictable dude! But I think you have used the little sister thing before so you aren't even coming up with new material :lol: ) I am no conspiracy theorist and could give a shit about Voile except for the fact that they haven't innovated anything and if anything, they have held the industry back for a long time. I personally choose to support companies that are moving our sport ahead with new ideas. That's all.



But I apologize for cunting up this thread with negativity (SIA hangover and too much coffee yesterday am). I bet Wasatch surf and I would be best buds over a beer after a backcountry jaunt. Back to your regularly scheduled SPARK R AND D discussion.


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 Post subject: Re: Spark Edison Binding
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:55 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:03 pm
Posts: 221
Location: British Columbia
Quote:
I still say a system that allows you to get out your bindings if needed is necessary regardless of how successful an airbag might end up being. How well does an air bag work in a tree well?


I think, seeing a few videos of people caught in tree well with releasable skis, having a binding that releases wont help much. I think if you are really stuck in a well, you wont be able to reach up to your bindings, ski or snowboard. I do agree, like others here, that releasable setup wouldn't be a bad idea, but I understand the fear of having a premature release/ only one side release scenario.

I recall reading in Trempers book that avalanche bags are showing incredible promise, but I don't think there is much study on them with snowboarders, as much of the feedback was from Europe, and ski tourers. He also talked about trauma being much more prevalent in North America, as many of the incidents end with people getting dragged through trees, as opposed to more open terrain. I notice some of the bags put emphasis on cradling and supporting your head.

Either way, I think with price and weight coming down, and better packs, people are going to want them. Me too maybe, but it will remain to be seen if they save people, or just make people go into heavier terrain with a false sense of security.

I think a good avalanche tool that could save some lives is a nice meadow skipping pow board so you can have fun in low angle terrain when the conditions are telling you thats where you should be.


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 Post subject: Re: Spark Edison Binding
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:35 am 
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Posts: 144
KGN wrote:
I think a good avalanche tool that could save some lives is a nice meadow skipping pow board so you can have fun in low angle terrain when the conditions are telling you thats where you should be.


+1


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 Post subject: Re: Spark Edison Binding
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:49 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 8:35 am
Posts: 17
According to ABS the newest industry stats are 97% effective with the air bags. I think this stat is super high but still pretty good info. During my avy 1 we learned that the swiss put snowboards and skis on dummies with the airbags then they trigger big slides with the dummies in the slides. These tests were done above tree level so trauma would be less then in tree zones. The put trip sensors on them (kind of like mythbusters) and the dummies had a 90% or higher success rate. Interesting watching how well people float on top of the avalanches. I don't think a snowboard has a chance to pull you down with all the flotation the packs provide. Also we learned that people don't get carried as far with the slide. Basically the slide flows faster under them. Obviously I am not an expert on these, but I think these are the future. Really is your life only worth 800-1200 bucks?

The edison bindings look sweet but I would be worried about ice build up etc... My first split was a atomic poacher. There system was crazy light and worked well unless you had ice. Then it was a pain in the ass! I bet my voile setup is half a pound more a foot then the atomic. Good stuff coming out for splitboarders! Can't wait for the future!!


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 Post subject: Re: Spark Edison Binding
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:01 pm 
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shredgnar wrote:
charging everyone else royalties.


My bad for the thread drift but this is important...

True or False

If a company uses non-Voile tip/tail/hook connectors such as Karakoram, they don't have to pay anything to Voile?


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 Post subject: Re: Spark Edison Binding
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:19 pm 
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Location: Denver
thewwkayaker wrote:
...the only remaining argument would be that - yes it could release during a move. Kinda like what happens at times to skiers. But they are willing to take that risk because the risk of avalanches and tree wells are there. That type of concern is worth the occational mishap. Again - I'm refering to a system that would release BOTH feet. And yes it can be done.


uh what? the whole point of releaseable bindings on skis is to prevent knee injuries. That sentence doesnt make any sense. The idea of a DIN controlled releaseable snowboard binding sounds cool but would cost a ton of money to develop and be heavier, etc. Good luck with that quest. Especially to release both feet simultaneously. I'll take my ABS...

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 Post subject: Re: Spark Edison Binding
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:54 pm 
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Location: Denver
bcrider wrote:
shredgnar wrote:
charging everyone else royalties.


My bad for the thread drift but this is important...

True or False

If a company uses non-Voile tip/tail/hook connectors such as Karakoram, they don't have to pay anything to Voile?


From what I understand from talking to Voile this is true.

I wonder how this has gone over with their customer's though? I know that they were charging a licensing fee for the the splitboard hole pattern as recently as last season. It's an interesting development.


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