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 Post subject: Re: Are K-clips worth the $50
PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 9:37 pm 
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Location: Stockton, CA
aksltxlt wrote:
If your cutting your own board or if your factory board has slop then get em...If your board halves are tight and match up properly then why spend an extra 50 bucks :scratch:

My NS SL split fits so tight with the Voile hooks just like yours. Anyone want to buy my K-clips? From the DIY boards that I've seen the K-clips really help pull things together while you are setting up the rest of the templates.
richie wrote:
On the other hand, the Zytel tip/tail clips that Karakoram make are looking like the way to go, they are extremely tough material and I suspect will last a lot longer than the Voile ones. I have seen the Voile tip/tail clips let go on a few boards this season leaving the tips and tail flapping around and annoying the rider.

I think that the Karakoram tip and tail clips will eliminate that issue for most boards, most likely ones that don't fit really tight. I may put them on soon, regardless.


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 Post subject: Re: Are K-clips worth the $50
PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 6:17 pm 
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I did a stiffness test with one of my riding partners. We both have Venture Storm splits of the same size, he has a Karakoram interface, and I have Voile. Leaving the bindings off of the boards, we tested the lateral stiffness (across the board), in other words, the stiffness from edge to edge (the direction which is weak for a split, as it tends to door hinge at the seam).
The Voile chinese hooks clearly were stiffer than the Karakoram clips. The better performance is not surprising looking at the length of the support across the board and the L shaped structure of the Voile chinese hooks. It is important to keep the chinese hooks tight-I like to set them up with blue loctite, and set them tight enough that it takes a good deal of force to twist them into place.

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 Post subject: Re: Are K-clips worth the $50
PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 6:49 pm 
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barrows wrote:
I did a stiffness test with one of my riding partners. We both have Venture Storm splits of the same size, he has a Karakoram interface, and I have Voile. Leaving the bindings off of the boards, we tested the lateral stiffness (across the board), in other words, the stiffness from edge to edge (the direction which is weak for a split, as it tends to door hinge at the seam).
The Voile chinese hooks clearly were stiffer than the Karakoram clips. The better performance is not surprising looking at the length of the support across the board and the L shaped structure of the Voile chinese hooks. It is important to keep the chinese hooks tight-I like to set them up with blue loctite, and set them tight enough that it takes a good deal of force to twist them into place.



agreed!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Are K-clips worth the $50
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:25 pm 
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barrows wrote:
I did a stiffness test with one of my riding partners. We both have Venture Storm splits of the same size, he has a Karakoram interface, and I have Voile. Leaving the bindings off of the boards, we tested the lateral stiffness (across the board), in other words, the stiffness from edge to edge (the direction which is weak for a split, as it tends to door hinge at the seam).
The Voile chinese hooks clearly were stiffer than the Karakoram clips. The better performance is not surprising looking at the length of the support across the board and the L shaped structure of the Voile chinese hooks. It is important to keep the chinese hooks tight-I like to set them up with blue loctite, and set them tight enough that it takes a good deal of force to twist them into place.


Isn't a stiffness test with the bindings off kind of pointless? I'd be much more interested in know if it made a difference when you are 100% in ride mode. :twocents:

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 Post subject: Re: Are K-clips worth the $50
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:57 pm 
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peacefrog wrote:
barrows wrote:
I did a stiffness test with one of my riding partners. We both have Venture Storm splits of the same size, he has a Karakoram interface, and I have Voile. Leaving the bindings off of the boards, we tested the lateral stiffness (across the board), in other words, the stiffness from edge to edge (the direction which is weak for a split, as it tends to door hinge at the seam).
The Voile chinese hooks clearly were stiffer than the Karakoram clips. The better performance is not surprising looking at the length of the support across the board and the L shaped structure of the Voile chinese hooks. It is important to keep the chinese hooks tight-I like to set them up with blue loctite, and set them tight enough that it takes a good deal of force to twist them into place.


Isn't a stiffness test with the bindings off kind of pointless? I'd be much more interested in know if it made a difference when you are 100% in ride mode. :twocents:


The thread is about the clips, not the bindings. This test was to specifically test the stiffness of the clips in comparison with Voile. The Voile set up was noticeably stiffer. We tested the bindings as well-actually Voile plate vs Karakoram, and could not determine if there was any difference-but with both the clips/chinsese hooks engaged, and the bindings on the boards, the board was stiffer laterally with the Voile chinese hooks.

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 Post subject: Re: Are K-clips worth the $50
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 5:38 pm 
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barrows wrote:
I did a stiffness test with one of my riding partners. We both have Venture Storm splits of the same size, he has a Karakoram interface, and I have Voile. Leaving the bindings off of the boards, we tested the lateral stiffness (across the board), in other words, the stiffness from edge to edge (the direction which is weak for a split, as it tends to door hinge at the seam).
The Voile chinese hooks clearly were stiffer than the Karakoram clips. The better performance is not surprising looking at the length of the support across the board and the L shaped structure of the Voile chinese hooks. It is important to keep the chinese hooks tight-I like to set them up with blue loctite, and set them tight enough that it takes a good deal of force to twist them into place.


both clips aren't really designed to give a lot of lateral stiffness, thats what the bindings are for :thumpsup: you would be crazy to try ride a board with only clips holding it together...so testing that way is pointless

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 Post subject: Re: Are K-clips worth the $50
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 5:54 pm 
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stein wrote:
barrows wrote:
I did a stiffness test with one of my riding partners. We both have Venture Storm splits of the same size, he has a Karakoram interface, and I have Voile. Leaving the bindings off of the boards, we tested the lateral stiffness (across the board), in other words, the stiffness from edge to edge (the direction which is weak for a split, as it tends to door hinge at the seam).
The Voile chinese hooks clearly were stiffer than the Karakoram clips. The better performance is not surprising looking at the length of the support across the board and the L shaped structure of the Voile chinese hooks. It is important to keep the chinese hooks tight-I like to set them up with blue loctite, and set them tight enough that it takes a good deal of force to twist them into place.


both clips aren't really designed to give a lot of lateral stiffness, thats what the bindings are for :thumpsup: you would be crazy to try ride a board with only clips holding it together...so testing that way is pointless


Stein: really now... take a deep breath and think about what you are saying. Stiffness across the board is enhanced if the clips or chinese hooks make the board stiffer, simple as that. Personally, I prefer that my splitboard ride as close to the performance of a solid board as possible, and stiffness enhancement laterally is a bonus. Testing the clips separately is the best way to evaluate their performance, in isolation from the rest of the interface (and as noted above, we tested both ways). From the posts in this thread, we see two things: the Karakoram clips make the board into a V shape at their point of contact (aka "hulling"), and they do not promote increased lateral board stiffness as much as the Voile chinese hooks do. You are free to decide whether any of this matters to you, I know what I am going to use for all my boards.

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 Post subject: Re: Are K-clips worth the $50
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:20 pm 
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if clips were designed to give a lot of lateral support, they would be designed different.

or are you saying the clips were designed to provide lateral support?

To me it looks like the binding interface provides the most lateral support, and the clips provide support along the center line, in any split board set up. but apparently I'm not breathing deep enough...

in the end you still can't ride a splitboard thats only attached by the clips, so your test is still pointless.

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 Post subject: Re: Are K-clips worth the $50
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:37 pm 
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The test is quite relevant in my opinion. The bindings do add the majority of the lateral support for sure especially directly under and between the bindings, the binding bottom plate being way stronger intrinsically its a no brainer they will be the major stiffness influence. However outwards towards the tips you still need it there too and this is where the connection between the two split halfs needs to be as good as possible, or the halfs will twist towards the tips and you will loose some edge effectiveness. This is where the Voile C-hooks do a better job, and its best demonstrated without the bindings on.

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 Post subject: Re: Are K-clips worth the $50
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:49 pm 
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if the board isn't in ride mode, and forces being applied that simulate a person riding the board, the test is pointless, in my eyes anyway

its like testing a rear wheel drive car versus a front wheel drive car, and the cars dont have tires, sure one might beat the other in a race, but its still pointless in the application they are designed to do with tires on.

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 Post subject: Re: Are K-clips worth the $50
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:11 pm 
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Effectively in this test the board is in ride mode, its clipped together. The test forces applied are lateral such as you get while riding. Removing the binding allows you to see more clearly the lateral stiffness that either system gives, otherwise it would be pretty hard to observe statically. Ultimate test would be riding, probably using the same board in the same conditions (sketchy hard stuff?) but then it gets quite subjective to many variables that are harder to control. Either solution works, both have their strengths and weak points. One of my goals with the splits I build (full customs not DIY's) is to get that interface working as well as possible to enhance the ride performance in all aspects with as few compromises as possible.

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 Post subject: Re: Are K-clips worth the $50
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:39 pm 
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barrows wrote:
We tested the bindings as well-actually Voile plate vs Karakoram, and could not determine if there was any difference.


nuff said

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 Post subject: Re: Are K-clips worth the $50
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 8:46 pm 
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hey Stein let us know your results once you've tested them both. The comments here are objective based on some good static tests and observations, from guys who have a few clues. Cheers, Rich

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