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 Post subject: Stance setback effects
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 1:55 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 8:52 am
Posts: 118
So there has to be some theory to stance setback. The obvious one is the further back the more float. But what are the other effects? Shortening the tail and lengthening the tail has to give other effects.

What is the benefit of a forward stance? Will it make the board turnier? With the compromise of float?


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 Post subject: Re: Stance setback effects
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:37 pm 
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Location: Whistler, Coast Mtns
Depends on where the sidecut is on the board.

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 Post subject: Re: Stance setback effects
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:39 pm 
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Location: Tromsø, Norway
Well, too much setback will make stomping cliffs harder because you wont have the support that a longer tail gives. Its the same with speed and stability, longer tail equals more stability. You will also need a long nose for stability in speeds and float, so a moderate setback is good for all-mountain riding! I like to only have a small tail when its very deep powder.

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 Post subject: Re: Stance setback effects
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:24 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2009 5:55 pm
Posts: 30
Location: Telluride, CO
I vary the setback on all my boards according do snow depth.

Hardpack ---> Centered over sidecut for control n stability
...
...
...
Bottomless ---> Throw back foot as far back as possible and float UpOn the Down



The rules are always subject to change. With softer and rockered boards, too much nose can cause it to 'hang up' and send you over the handlebars in a exaggerated 'wash out,' which is common with too little tail because you don't have much back there keeping your back leg from coming through when pushed off balance. If your used to/expecting it its not a huge deal until you really get moving mach 2 in variable terrain. I.e. big nose short tail better for trees and not so much for big bowl/chute stuff. But if your going mach 2 you don't need to worry much about float then... Also, having huge nose takes a bit getting used to in really tight trees, but the float is almost priceless here in CO where we don't see huge bottomless snowpack most of the year.

Which brings me to the next point, snowpack. Fluffy stuff is harder to float through, and so you want a board with more float. Bottomless fluff is the ultimate ride imho, and to maximize control over depth in the stuff you want as much float as possible. I have also ridden Cascade cement though, where it could have snowed 3 feet but you only really ride the top half. In such conditions float is still very nice as burying a nose sucks in tough heavy snow, but the snow pushes back harder and the washout gets harder to avoid.
FRONT LEG BURN ON A POW DAY!!!

In the end though, extra float is worth just about whatever you have to do to get it when the snow is right. It will ride quirky at first, but your back leg will love you and keep you riding longer.


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 Post subject: Re: Stance setback effects
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 6:18 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2011 6:15 pm
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Location: mountains of portland, oregon
you dont really want to set back your stances at all, you'll end up riding with the deepest point of sidecut no longer in the middle of your feet. in a perfect world we'd all have a quiver of ten boards at all times, but since we don't people resort to setting back the stances on their regular board.

all in all it dont really make that much of a difference, but also if your riding a split most likely its already set back plenty far.

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 Post subject: Re: Stance setback effects
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 9:36 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 10:05 am
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Location: Colorado
"you dont really want to set back your stances at all, you'll end up riding with the deepest point of sidecut no longer in the middle of your feet. in a perfect world we'd all have a quiver of ten boards at all times, but since we don't people resort to setting back the stances on their regular board."

The above is only true for boards with a symmetrical sidecut and no taper. Taper moves the waist of the board to the rear of the board; to keep the waist of the board in the middle of one's stance, it is necessary to move the stance back of center.
Additionally, setback stances actually improve stability, and make turn initiation a little more difficult, in addition to helping the board plane up more quickly in powder. Directional freeriders in the backcountry, on tapered boards, should always ride with a setback stance. If the stance is too far forward, the board will overturn and try to swap ends, as the sidecut will want to keep carving in the nose and the tail will slide around until you are suddenly riding switch (instability to the extreme). 0 cm setback should only be done on true, symmetrical, twin freestyle boards-you never want the center of your stance to be ahead of the waist of your board.

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 Post subject: Re: Stance setback effects
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 8:47 pm 
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Location: mountains of portland, oregon
barrows i dont think your seeing that the manufacturer will move the inserts back or forward depending on where the sidecut of the board is. if you ride on middle inserts on any board, freestyle, swallowtail, alpine, freeride, etc., you will have the stance with the sidecut in the middle of your board.

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 Post subject: Re: Stance setback effects
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:05 pm 
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Location: Colorado
christoph benells wrote:
barrows i dont think your seeing that the manufacturer will move the inserts back or forward depending on where the sidecut of the board is. if you ride on middle inserts on any board, freestyle, swallowtail, alpine, freeride, etc., you will have the stance with the sidecut in the middle of your board.


Christoph: Nope, I am referring to setback as the distance of the center of the stance in relation to the center of the edge contact, as most manufacturers do when they specify the setback of a given board. I am not referring to using setback in reference to the center of the insert positions (which may, or may not, be centered on the sidecut).
In order to have a constant reference from board to board, regardless of a given manufacturers approach to insert position, I feel it is best to consider setback as referenced to the center of the edge contact. As an example, Venture Snowboards gives a specification for setback on the Storm as 3 cm. This specification refers to the position of insert pack in relation to the center of the edge contact (and, as you note, centers the inserts fairly closely to the waist of the board, which is back of center, due to the taper). I ride this board at 4 cm back, so an additional 1 cm of setback. All of these setback amounts are referrenced from the center of the edge length (not referenced either to the insert pack, or the waist of the board).

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http://protectourwinters.org/
http://14ersnowboardproject.homestead.com/


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 Post subject: Re: Stance setback effects
PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:48 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2011 6:15 pm
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Location: mountains of portland, oregon
stance setback is obviously measured from effective edge. nose shapes vary. that one on your venture is huge!

if the inserts are set back 3 cm already and you ride 1 more cm back this means your riding with the narrowest part of the sidecut no longer in the middle of your stance? why? 3cm setback isn't good enough and then you could ride the board as it was intended?

what manufacturer would make a board with the inserts not set around the sidecut? never heard of that before, unless your reffering to defects. (lots of ski companies center markings will be off and ski techs gotta measure the ski before mounting)

all in all, its the riders preference and never really matters. whatever whomevers used to.

hey barrows, you got any pics of your race plate slider set up? i got an old pair of race plates and wanna see what you did.

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 Post subject: Re: Stance setback effects
PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:07 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 10:05 am
Posts: 1504
Location: Colorado
Yes, personal preference is what matters.

It is quite common for both snowboarders and skiers to mount bindings a little differently than recommended positions from manufacturers. I do this to suit my preferred riding style and conditions-further back to allow for quicker planing, and increased stability in this case.

PM me with you e-mail address and I can send some pics of my bindings.

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Never Summer Prospector 167X, furberg 173 DIY, Dynafit TLT5/6 Mountain , Phantom Bindings, BD Glidelite Skins
Quiver Killer inserts

http://protectourwinters.org/
http://14ersnowboardproject.homestead.com/


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