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 Post subject: Re: Scarpa F1 and F3
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 7:47 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 03, 2009 10:48 am
Posts: 49
Quote:
I have contacted the North American distributors of both Scarpa and Dynafit, encouraging them to consider developing such a boot, and offered to consult on the design, but


Awesome that you have pushed for development for a splitboard boot and offered to help with the design.

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Venture Storm R 163 (2010) with Dynafit Bindings, F1 Scarpa Boots, Snowpro Race Plate Bindings * Nitro Retro Swallowtail 171 (DIY Splitboard), Burton Fish 156 * Vans BOA "Klutch" Step-in Snowboard Boot and Switch X Bindings


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 Post subject: Re: Scarpa F1 and F3
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:46 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2008 7:38 pm
Posts: 385
Location: Eugene and Coos Bay, Oregon.
Pow, I expect we are all a bit different on the amount and on our sensitivity to l/m and forward flex. Even aside from rider preferences, my light weight, 145 pounds, would suggest I need a softer boot just to get the same flex during riding as a heavier rider.

No, I do not miss the locked ride mode of the F1s. I need the forward ankle movement for my riding in all conditions. I absolutely needed the heelside stop of the cube though. The mod I did to my F3s had the same effect as the one on the F1s.

From everything I know, the bellow on the F1/F3 is specifically for walking and skinning. I love it most of the time. There is a piece you must put under the bellow to keep it from flexing when skiing in Dynafit bindings.

In a conversation I had with Scarpa about the F1 a few months back, they mentioned that the ride bar is actually part of the l/m flex stiffening design. Obviously, it is only engaged while riding down, so along with the upper buckle being undone while ascending, l/m flex while ascending does not appear to be a major consideration in the design of the F1.

Barrows, I assume the Burton bindings are quite a bit lighter than the Cateks?

That is awesome you have been trying to work with boot manufacturers on a split specific AT type boot. Looks like with about as much luck as softboot splitters are having. Too small of a market at the moment.


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 Post subject: Re: Scarpa F1 and F3
PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 3:12 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 03, 2009 10:48 am
Posts: 49
Buell

I have been thinking more about your "Cube" mod for the F1 Boot. As mention before your design is a simple and effective design to the problem for forward flex! Noting the Cube attachment was on the lower shell and not on the cuff, which limit touring flex (a little bit), and raised concern about mounting to the soft plastic lower boot shell (remains to be seen as whether this is an issue.

I wonder:

If Sparks R and D could make a longer version on the "cube", aka a "Rectangle",so that it could be mounted into the existing boot cuff holes (these holes reinforce w/steel). The pivot point of the rectangle is off center and held under spring tension (like the cube).Hole alignments could be used to set forward lean.

The pivot point of the rectangle is off center and held under spring tension (like the cube).

Rotating the "rectangle":
1) Position Zero Set forward lean but not lock to the boot. The Rectangle acts like the high back and stops against the ridge for the lower boot shell (Scarpa F1boot 2008 and later).

2) Position 90 degrees: Pull and rotate 90 degrees for full tour flex ability.
3) Position 180 degrees; Pull and rotate another 90 degrees; the rectangle catches the Scarpa forward lean bar at less of a forward lean angle for a locked ski-mode.

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Ride the Pow!
----
Venture Storm R 163 (2010) with Dynafit Bindings, F1 Scarpa Boots, Snowpro Race Plate Bindings * Nitro Retro Swallowtail 171 (DIY Splitboard), Burton Fish 156 * Vans BOA "Klutch" Step-in Snowboard Boot and Switch X Bindings


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 Post subject: Re: Scarpa F1 and F3
PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 3:23 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 03, 2009 10:48 am
Posts: 49
Buell:

Why do you like more forward lean than the stock F3 will allow? In contrast, have you consider toe lift for the front binding (and heel lift for the back binding?

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Ride the Pow!
----
Venture Storm R 163 (2010) with Dynafit Bindings, F1 Scarpa Boots, Snowpro Race Plate Bindings * Nitro Retro Swallowtail 171 (DIY Splitboard), Burton Fish 156 * Vans BOA "Klutch" Step-in Snowboard Boot and Switch X Bindings


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 Post subject: Re: Scarpa F1 and F3
PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:07 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2008 7:38 pm
Posts: 385
Location: Eugene and Coos Bay, Oregon.
Pow-D-Rider wrote:
Buell

I have been thinking more about your "Cube" mod for the F1 Boot. As mention before your design is a simple and effective design to the problem for forward flex! Noting the Cube attachment was on the lower shell and not on the cuff, which limit touring flex (a little bit), and raised concern about mounting to the soft plastic lower boot shell (remains to be seen as whether this is an issue.

I wonder:

If Sparks R and D could make a longer version on the "cube", aka a "Rectangle",so that it could be mounted into the existing boot cuff holes (these holes reinforce w/steel). The pivot point of the rectangle is off center and held under spring tension (like the cube).Hole alignments could be used to set forward lean.

The pivot point of the rectangle is off center and held under spring tension (like the cube).

Rotating the "rectangle":
1) Position Zero Set forward lean but not lock to the boot. The Rectangle acts like the high back and stops against the ridge for the lower boot shell (Scarpa F1boot 2008 and later).

2) Position 90 degrees: Pull and rotate 90 degrees for full tour flex ability.
3) Position 180 degrees; Pull and rotate another 90 degrees; the rectangle catches the Scarpa forward lean bar at less of a forward lean angle for a locked ski-mode.


You are thinking of something similar in size to the stock walk/ski bar? Fun idea for the widest range of riding options. It does address the minor interference of the cube while skinning. I have thought about a piece that you install to ride and keep in your pocket to skin, but have not come up with a quick, simple, and strong design. That idea still does not allow you to ride with the boots locked.

My boots are elsewhere but I am pretty sure the metal reinforcement you are referring to on the upper cuff is only a couple of T-nuts. That is exactly what I used to mount the cube (one oversized t-nut). The thickness of the plastic might be different in the two locations but it is pretty thick on the back of the lower cuff. I am not ready to take my cube modded f1s down a 'no fall' line, but I am pretty sure they are safe (for my 145 pounds anyway).

Your idea seems possible if you have a second connection point near the lower ledge to keep the bar from twisting off under the load of a hard heelside. It seems complex though and is only needed for the rider who sometimes wants the boot locked while riding and sometimes wants forward flex while riding.


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 Post subject: Re: Scarpa F1 and F3
PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:37 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2008 7:38 pm
Posts: 385
Location: Eugene and Coos Bay, Oregon.
Pow-D-Rider wrote:
Buell:

Why do you like more forward lean than the stock F3 will allow? In contrast, have you consider toe lift for the front binding (and heel lift for the back binding?


I had thought that I would just drill out between the two holes in the w/r bar and be good. Testing before modding showed that the furthest forward of the two positions was not far enough forward and felt like where I wanted my highback. So I started drilling from there.

It seems that snowboarders (at least me) need more forward flex while riding than skiers need while skiing.

Riding position wise, if you cannot bend your ankles enough then you cannot bend your knees enough. Bending your knees without bending your ankles puts your butt too far out of position. Too stiff of a boot (or not enough forward lean) makes it hard to bend my knees and stay in a good riding position (not to mention absorbing rougher terrain).

I have watched hardbooters ride stiff boots really well in all kinds of conditions. It sounds like you might be able to do this. I know some of what I am saying is personal preference.

I have ridden carve boards with the lift you describe. Currently I carve with only a small amount of front foot toe lift/flat rear foot. I consider lift to be for different purposes than what I get from forward flex in my boot.


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 Post subject: Re: Scarpa F1 and F3
PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 3:15 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 10:05 am
Posts: 1503
Location: Colorado
Buell:

The Burton Raceplate toe and heel pieces (direct mount to Voile Slider Plate) save about 4 ounces versus direct mounting the Cateks. they also allow a lower boot to board height, and the thinner bales are a little more flexible, without being sketchy.
I am now riding mostly on the the raceplate toe and heel pieces, as I purchased new toe bales from bomberonline (I was a little sketched on the age of the plastic toe levers).

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 Post subject: Re: Scarpa F1 and F3
PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:06 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 8:56 pm
Posts: 470
Location: Meyers, CA
Buell, Just curious how your magic cube F1 mod is holding up? Also, if you learned anything that you would do differently next time?


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 Post subject: Re: Scarpa F1 and F3
PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:15 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 10:30 am
Posts: 610
Location: Mendham, NJ
I've got size 27 F1 shells for sale...

Awesome boot though.

PM for details...

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 Post subject: Re: Scarpa F1 and F3
PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 6:32 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2008 7:38 pm
Posts: 385
Location: Eugene and Coos Bay, Oregon.
dishwasher-dave wrote:
Buell, Just curious how your magic cube F1 mod is holding up? Also, if you learned anything that you would do differently next time?


I have not ridden them too much this season because they are my powder boots and we have not had much powder (since I got to Utah on Jan 4th anyway). I have been riding my F3s for the mixed conditions. I will be taking them out tomorrow though. :D

They seem to be totally fine though. They rotate and stay where I put them and are plenty rigid to hold my heelside. The tallest side is my forward lean side and when I put them on the shortest side, they allow a plenty adequate range of motion while skinning.

As long as you grind away all the material that gets in the way of their rotation and slightly round the area where you plan to install them to conform to their shape, it is pretty straight forward. To find the location of the mounting screw, I determined where I wanted my forward lean and marked that based on the tallest side of the MC. Then I tested for skinning range of motion base on where that put the shortest side of the MC. Hopefully, that is sufficiently low to be out of the way.


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 Post subject: Re: Scarpa F1 and F3
PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 5:23 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2005 5:06 pm
Posts: 167
Location: Mt Shasta
I was considering trying a new hardboot, specifically the F1, until I located this warning on backcountry.com:

We do not recommend that you use this boot with a Silveretta Binding or anything that has a heel attchement that stays on the boot while walking . Reason being that these boots have bellows and when the boots flex in walk mode they could potentially release. Dynafit and G3 bindings do not have a fixed heel when walking.

In spring, on Shasta, I use the Voile crampons to go straight up alot of lines before they corn up. The idea of a backward tumbling decent on hard snow with only one ski...freaks me out.


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 Post subject: Re: Scarpa F1 and F3
PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:00 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:10 pm
Posts: 1410
Location: UT
shasta wrote:
I was considering trying a new hardboot, specifically the F1, until I located this warning on backcountry.com:

We do not recommend that you use this boot with a Silveretta Binding or anything that has a heel attchement that stays on the boot while walking . Reason being that these boots have bellows and when the boots flex in walk mode they could potentially release. Dynafit and G3 bindings do not have a fixed heel when walking.

In spring, on Shasta, I use the Voile crampons to go straight up alot of lines before they corn up. The idea of a backward tumbling decent on hard snow with only one ski...freaks me out.
I don't get the connection from the warning to splitboarding with, or without Dynafit toe pieces, or the Dynafit heel piece? The heel piece mounts to the board not the boot :scratch:
My one and only experience with Dynafit toe-pieces and my F3's (w/ bellows) was awesome, BUT I'll admit if I were to buy some I would definitely add a ski leash to each foot. But I still don't get the warning connection to splitboarding and Dynafit.

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 Post subject: Re: Scarpa F1 and F3
PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:29 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2005 5:06 pm
Posts: 167
Location: Mt Shasta
Not for Dynafits, sounds like they work just fine.

Plates with bales is where the potential pre-release would come up according to the warning.


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