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 Post subject: Re: Custom Hybid Rocker 158 Prior BC with 11m sidecut
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:06 pm 
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Location: The Belly of Ham baby!!
I was thinking more about this board...

I think the narrow nose and tail, with the mellow sidecut might make it prone to washing out on hard carving.

Your guy's thoughts?

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 Post subject: Re: Custom Hybid Rocker 158 Prior BC with 11m sidecut
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:37 pm 
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Location: Colorado
Russman:

check out the specs of race boards, narrow, with long sidecut radii. Race boards have no problem with hard carving.
Yesterday I got in a rare lift day on my Winterstick Tom Burt, love this board, and its 11 m. sidecut.
Deep sidecuts were developed so that intermediate and beginning riders could learn to carve at slow speeds in ski areas, they make no sense for advanced riders in the backcountry.
One of my all time favorite boards for the steeps was a Burton M6 race board, this thing has about 14 m radius sidecut, and handled very nicely in the backcountry.
Buell is right on with this design, and his reports on how it is handling are exactly as I would expect.

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 Post subject: Re: Custom Hybid Rocker 158 Prior BC with 11m sidecut
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:08 pm 
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side cut is retarded. Anything under 9m just seems way too turny/hooky and unnecessary even on a short board. there really is no good reason for anything <9 on a high end freeride board imo, yet ALL boards that are 162 or less have less than this. its really kinda stupid


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 Post subject: Re: Custom Hybid Rocker 158 Prior BC with 11m sidecut
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:14 pm 
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Location: The Belly of Ham baby!!
The biggest sidecut I've had a chance to ride is 10m. So I'm looking for edumacations.

I was more thinking about how there are two main ways to turn a snowboard. First is with shoulder counter movements, and the other is with independent knee and ankle driving. You guys ride in hard boots with alpine stances (except for BGmaster) so that is a different style of riding that I know very little about. What I have learned a lot about is that countermovement turns are very inefficient. Little to no sidecut makes the board essentially impossible to turn with ankle movements at slow speeds (so you have to counter move more) but at high speeds makes things more stable. Simply put, boards like this only really come to life at super high speeds :)

Hmmmmmm, maybe I need a Severe Terrain board. Dammit!

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 Post subject: Re: Custom Hybid Rocker 158 Prior BC with 11m sidecut
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:18 pm 
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Okay, so Brooks I may need to borrow your board for a run....

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 Post subject: Re: Custom Hybid Rocker 158 Prior BC with 11m sidecut
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:55 pm 
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Russman:

Not really sure what your comments mean?
I ride a 21" stance width, with 27 degree front, and 12 degree back, I ride the same stance with either hard boots or soft, and I would not consider this stance an alpine stance (which would have 45 degree and higher angles).
Two types of turns? I think there are many more ways to turn than this, but the reality is that most turns in the backcountry are composed of more than one technique.
I much prefer a board with less sidecut, as this offers better predictability, better stability, and better edge control in difficult situations. I do like to ride fast sometimes, but often ride at fairly moderate speeds in very steep and exposed situations, and have no difficulty getting short radius turns out of a 11 m radius sidecut in those situations.
I suggest that you try a board with less sidecut, you might be surprised how much easier it is to control, especially in difficult conditions (steep, exposed, tricky variable snow).

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 Post subject: Re: Custom Hybid Rocker 158 Prior BC with 11m sidecut
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:10 am 
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Location: Whistler, Coast Mtns
BGnight wrote:
side cut is retarded. Anything under 9m just seems way too turny/hooky and unnecessary even on a short board. there really is no good reason for anything <9 on a high end freeride board imo, yet ALL boards that are 162 or less have less than this. its really kinda stupid



Bigger sidecut=stability

Smaller sidecuts become very dangerous once you get on steeper terrain. Your tip and tail hook up and you have a harder time holding an edge. A larger sidecut is much safer once you get into tight/steep chutes.


I have a 159 with a 10m sidecut and it turns fine.
6'3 180,soft boots, 21 1/2 stance, 24' front +/-3 on the back
My 167 with 15m is a different story but once you put it on edge it doesn't move. I can't go fast enough with it.


If I'm riding big terrain I don't want a board with a 9.3m sidecut(Solution)
I'd rather have to work it at slower speeds with a bigger sidecut and have the stability it provides at speed and the safety on hardpack steeps.
Simply put.

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 Post subject: Re: Custom Hybid Rocker 158 Prior BC with 11m sidecut
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:57 am 
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Russ, the only thing I master is your mom 8) .

At least Jones's boards have longer sidecuts than most other boards. I love the old cambered jones rossi and the new softer rossi experience. I think the 166 cambered is a 10m radius.

I find when I go from a 8.5-9m board to a 10m board I instantly find steering at high speeds is way easier. And I'm talking quicker turning ability cuz you can make fast transitions without the board wanting to hook into a turn.


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 Post subject: Re: Custom Hybid Rocker 158 Prior BC with 11m sidecut
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 7:43 am 
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Location: Eugene and Coos Bay, Oregon.
russman wrote:
What I have learned a lot about is that countermovement turns are very inefficient. Little to no sidecut makes the board essentially impossible to turn with ankle movements at slow speeds (so you have to counter move more) but at high speeds makes things more stable. Simply put, boards like this only really come to life at super high speeds :)


As you touch on, initiating a turn with the upper body is a bad way to turn a snowboard. The upper body should be pretty quiet. It is a beginners method and most of us still occasionally do it in a tight spot out of habit but the board is much better turned starting with the feet, ankles and legs. Another technique you don't mention is to weight the nose just a bit and pull the tail around when in really rough snow or riding slow.

I am amazed how easy this board is to maneuver at lower speeds. It is hardly any different than a small sidecut in the bc (where we are rarely making true pencil track carved turns) but the benefits in not hooking and in stability are impressive.

Narrow nose and tail with a bigger sidecut puts a much more even pressure on the edge and increases the pressure at the feet. This will decrease the tendency of the board to wash out. With a smaller sidecut, too much pressure is on the nose and tail which have much less torsional rigidity and will twist off on a steep slope. Your earlier post was correct.


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 Post subject: Re: Custom Hybid Rocker 158 Prior BC with 11m sidecut
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:10 am 
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Location: Colorado
barrows wrote:
Deep sidecuts were developed so that intermediate and beginning riders could learn to carve at slow speeds in ski areas

True that!!!!
In fact most "New" technology is for intermediate riders. Cam-rock/Rock-cam/Fag-natraction etc...

Deep side-cut is sketchy at high speeds. Too "turny" for me. 10m+ is great, but all the manufacturers build for the masses not for guys like us.

But... Ultimately its the pilot not the board. Lance Armstrong: "It's not about the bike"

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 Post subject: Re: Custom Hybid Rocker 158 Prior BC with 11m sidecut
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 3:49 pm 
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whistlermaverick wrote:
I have a 159 with a 10m sidecut and it turns fine.


what board is this?


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 Post subject: Re: Custom Hybid Rocker 158 Prior BC with 11m sidecut
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 8:05 pm 
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Location: Cottonwood, UT
I am loving this thread. I think I discovered why I feel super unstable at high speeds lately. My resort board has been a Burton Malolo for the past few years. Its awesome for most the days I'm at the resort (powder days) but on those hard pack days it seems like my riding has digressed. I think this is primarily due to me selling all of my all mountain boards.

When I start building my own custom boards I'm definitely going to include a longer sidecut as part of my design. Its funny that when you realize you've snowboarded for so long but didn't pay much attention to the geometry of the board and its affects on your riding. I think my deep sidecut and tapered Malolo is my problem and is probably the reason I prefer to ski on groomer days. I probably shouldn't use it for conditions it wasn't meant for.


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 Post subject: Re: Custom Hybid Rocker 158 Prior BC with 11m sidecut
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 12:11 am 
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Location: Whistler, Coast Mtns
BGnight wrote:
whistlermaverick wrote:
I have a 159 with a 10m sidecut and it turns fine.


what board is this?



Oxess SBX

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