Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 11:29 am Posts: 7 Location: Wasatch
Point taken sandman. I didn't mean to come across as saying that people are stupid for riding these big boards; more like I feel just as stable, yet way more maneuverable and flexible to ride switch(yes even in powder) on a shorter board. I have ridden the big Winterstick swollowtail and can see if I had a 4000 vert. ft. shot of openness how it would be fun. I have also owned the Burton Fish 160 which I found to be just as stable, but a lot more maneuverable. Different strokes for different folks I guess.
No problem . Innovation is always good for all of us and there have been some great changes in the last few years and after seeing early pics from OR and SIA it looks like there are some good things coming for all types of riders for next year. Pray for snow.
Problem with most of these new boards are the lack of ANY camber, even hybrid camber. The Jones are basically flat, with a little nose rocker. Never summer are flat with insignificant rocker and camber areas. all the burton boards are now flat. camber humps...flat. I will ride them this mon and tues, but I do not expect anything.
Walking around at SIA, I noticed the majority of pros are less than 5.4 feet and weigh 155lbs, at the MOST.
Check out the new technology? Remember, I started making my own boards in 97 because there was no new design in snowboards. I was riding full rockered boards with a full inch of taper when people were measuring taper in millimeters. And that was 3-4 years before the Volant spatula came out. I would say that for the tow-in analogy, a super stiff snowboard with generous even curve rocker that can go on a rail at 50 mph with no threat of buckling is the tow board equivalent, irregardless of length, not the slightly rockered, same flex, same outline, same sidecut boards that are the general rule being made today. These boards are so similar b/c they work so well with a lot of versatility, but they are by no means specialized, or exceptional designs like a tow in board is. The mfg splits out there are pretty much the same 6'1s by 2.25 with 2 1/4" rocker from my point of view. Love the board discussion here, keep it coming, Aloha
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 3:34 pm Posts: 165 Location: Boulder, CO
I think Snurfer nailed it, big mtn charger = speed (and stability). My go to pow board is a NS F1 161 now, and it's super fun with plenty of float in bottomless pow (of course I'm 5'9" and 162lb's). Although, I don't consider it a big mtn board by definition, but instead a fun reliable powder tool. My NS T5 165 is my biggest board, and it's definitely a warp speed charger for me, but it's weight and lack of manuevberability in tight trees keep it relegated these days. I've also spent plenty of time on my NS Titan 160, but it's more a spring/packed pow board and nose dives when it's knee deep, but one hell of a high performance carver. Would also love to ride a big swallow tail in deep pow and wide open terrain, but think it would mostly collect dust here in Colorado.
I think it comes down to big fast lines vs playful pow turns when defining a big mtn charger. Longer heavier boards are unmatched with stability and power at blazing speed, and no matter what kind of new tech rocker design your on, you can't get it on a shorter board.
For me, my pick would be a NS Raptor 164 for big pow in big terrain. I demo'd a Raptor 159 earlier this season on a 4 inch day at Loveland, and was seriously impressed with how light the board is, how blazingly fast it is, how stable it is, and how quick and fluidly it turns while still providing ample float. It's definitely going to be one of the next 2 boards I buy.
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2007 9:42 am Posts: 3 Location: France,Pyrénées Mountains
Big swally riding, aka Winterstick's swally 184, which takes the ideas of taper and rocker to the extreme (cause its where they both started) is almost another sport. If you haven't ridden one in deep stuff, its, just, Ok, to try to get the point across...
Take a 155 with traditional camber, make the nose 30cm longer and rockered, imagine a surfboard nose. then add ~5cm to the nose width at the contact point (anything else with a nose that wide? not even close.) and give the tail almost 10cm 10 CENTIMETERS of taper and also slice out the middle third.
All this for, wait for it... Imagine not having to be in the back seat for pow anymore? getting sore in BOTH legs on a blower day. Leaning on the downhill leg to start the biggest roostered turn ya eva laid eyes on! and popping out and diving into the next one with as much punch as you can muster cause you KNOW its not gonna sink and send you over the top.
"ooh, but the suck in trees /tight turns though" BS. if your nose isn't sinking, your weight is off your back foot and actually more centered in the board, letting you swivel the back foot to a level impossible to get with traditional shapes, rocker or no. And plus you don't have to worry half as much about burying the nose under a log. Add to this the vastly diminished prospect of submarineing to a stop on the tweener flatter sections...
"ooh but it won't do icy steep crappy snow" Nevermind that its wrong... Why do you wanna ride there? Besides it eats death biscuits for breakfast.
Sorry, im not trying to sell them, really, but... really.
I ! I have been riding this type of boards here in France since the beginning of the 80's...I absolutely agree with all you wrote....posting.php?mode=quote&f=9&p=75410#I tried during all these years lots of powder boards and tried to stay open minded but went back to the swallowtail type of boards for real conditions.....I actually ride a Rossignol Experience 167 as a do-it-all , all-conditions resort board...And for that, I love it....
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 10:05 am Posts: 1482 Location: Colorado
I had a couple of Morrow Matt Goodwill models back in the day... the first one was a 179 and I did the second descent of Longs Peak North Face on that one, definately a great freeride board. I love the numbers on the Rad Air Tanker Series boards, they should make splits! Longer sidecuts, good amount of taper and rocker, bomber construction... a Flo Orley 181 split would be a really cool ride. Looks like the new Chimera Mace may have some promise in the larger sizes... Have to wait for the full specs to be published and word to get out on the construction/flex and durability. Should be pretty damp with full sandwich construction and UHMW top sheet. Will have to wait and see the numbers on the larger (175) Venture "Odin" for 2012, supposed to have longer sidecut, more taper, and be stiffer than the Storms.
never rode the glissade boards, but they were sick.
Was glissade out of Nor Cal - Red Bluff of all places? Or Chico?
I have a Nitro Pantera 69. Only have rode it 2 resort days but it's a beast.
Glissade originally had a factory in Chico, then moved it to San Francisco (a move I never understood); soon thereafter they stopped selling boards... Which is too bad, because to this day the Big Gun is the best all-around snowboard I've ever ridden (by a lot). The board pictured above has a 12.1 m radius side-cut. Glissade's website is still up, but they haven't pressed decks in several years. I still hold out hope that they'll resume someday.
I too am looking forward to seeing the numbers on the big Odin. I hope they make it wide enough for size 12s.
_________________ Craig Kelly is my co-pilot 195 Glissade Big Gun 187 Donek Custom Split 181 Venture Storm Solid and Split 173 Rossi Race DIY Swallowtail Split
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2005 7:43 am Posts: 27 Location: France
Don't forget the Dupraz snowboards. http://www.dupraz-snowsurfing.com/shop/ They come in a range of three different stiffness. I ride the D 1 +, the D1 ++ is really a big charger. I even cut a Dupraz to make my favorite splitbaord out of it. Serge Dupraz has been shaping snowboards back from the eighties. Period.
_________________ Snowsurfing : with a Dupraz indeed..