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 Post subject: Re: Voile Dual Height Climbing Heel issues?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:54 am 
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Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 10:10 am
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Location: Denver
^ agreed. My 1st set cracked as well in that same spot during install. Im hoping this is a temp solution and they have gone back to the drawing board.

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 Post subject: Re: Voile Dual Height Climbing Heel issues?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:43 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:28 pm
Posts: 453
Location: Cottonwood, UT
jimw wrote:
I think there must be more than one issue here. I ran a set of the dual-height wires when they first came out last spring, for a few tours. At that time I was using Karakoram prototypes, and for my particular setup, the bindings were not touching the wires at all when the wires were folded down (I know that's different from the issue Dave described, he's talking about the problem happening when the wire is up and in use). If I had my binding set any smaller though, they would have hit the front wire. In any case, I didn't have any cracking issues with that set.

Then I got another set for a new board a couple weeks ago, and one of the pads cracked right as I screwed it onto the board. No binding on the board, and the wires hadn't been used at all. I think the problem in this case is that the front hole in the pad is just to close to the edge; the material is so thin that it's prone to cracking just from tightening the screw. Here's a pic:

Image

I've used this set for a couple tours as-is, and haven't had any additional problems. In this case I've been using Ignition bindings.

My Ignitions have some huge scratch/wear marks from my old climbing wires from when the tubing started to wear out and expose the bear metal, so I'd prefer not to have the "solution" to be simply removing the tubing.

What are you using to tighten the screws with? A screw gun or a screw driver? If a screw gun, do you have it on the drill setting or have you set the clutch to a lower number?

The reason I ask is because if you tighten the screws too tight you can risk over-stressing the material. Or in other words you take the material to its failure point or right near it. Even if it doesn't crack immediately, it can occur later due to changes in temperature, impact, nicks in the surface, or your own weight pounding on it. Any imperfections in that area, compounded with the high pressure caused by over-tightening can cause a crack to propagate.

That area where yours cracked is probably particularly prone because its thinner in that area. I haven't looked at where the mold gate is but I assume its on the underside, in the center of the part. So depending on the mold settings (temperature, pressure, cycle time), a weakness can also form as the plastic flows around that screw hole. Think of two waves flowing around a rock. As they flow around the rock the two waves meet and crash into each other. That can be a weak point called a knit line. If the plastic begins to cool too much as it reaches that point, the two "waves" won't bond well to each other and a crack will form more easily at that point rather than anywhere else on the component.

Anyway, that's probably way more than anyone wanted to know. But make sure when you tighten the screws, hand tighten them (But don't crank on them), or use a drill with the clutch set to about 12-ish (This sort of depends on what drill you have, mine goes up to 25). Use some lock tight so the screws don't back out over time.

I'm not saying that this will fix your problem because it may be a process issue on Voile's part due to internal stresses induced by the molding gate location (Point where they inject the plastic) or temperature and pressure used to mold the part. I'm just saying this because in general we torque on things more than we should. Screws threads can fail in this same way, but in this case the plastic will fail before the metal screw.


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 Post subject: Re: Voile Dual Height Climbing Heel issues?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 1:46 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:15 pm
Posts: 295
Location: Washington
I'm not sold on the idea that bare wires is the solution either. A temporary fix maybe. 1 steel wire=$1.00+/-, Spark Blaze binders=$300.00. Wearing holes in the baseplates isn't going to fly. Hopefully there is a re-design coming.


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 Post subject: Re: Voile Dual Height Climbing Heel issues?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:02 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 9:39 am
Posts: 147
what about wrapping the climbing wire in duct tape or some kind of thick friction tape...would that solve both the slipping back of the climbing wire and any damage it might do to the baseplate?


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 Post subject: Re: Voile Dual Height Climbing Heel issues?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:24 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:15 pm
Posts: 295
Location: Washington
^I thought about that too. Or maybe something on the baseplate where the wires hit.


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 Post subject: Re: Voile Dual Height Climbing Heel issues?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 3:58 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2008 12:04 am
Posts: 196
Location: truckee, ca
latest victim...mine broke on my second lap on saturday. voile is sending out a replacement but i too am skeptical of the fix.

when i asked about wear on the spark base plate, i was told that they have been testing on the sparks and the wear is only cosmetic...the woman i spoke with said that the metals were similar enough that there was no evidence of any structural damage.

i guess i'll just monitor it over the next several weeks.


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 Post subject: Re: Voile Dual Height Climbing Heel issues?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 5:21 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2008 12:04 am
Posts: 196
Location: truckee, ca
by the way, i had been out about 15 days before they busted...


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 Post subject: Re: Voile Dual Height Climbing Heel issues?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 8:38 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 8:37 pm
Posts: 102
Location: Boulder, CO
5th tour and mine broke too - short climbing wire found a home in the snow somewhere. Got a new set from Voile very quickly (no sleeves on the wires) but honestly i don't want them - clankety clank clank - geezus i hate noises coming from my gear. Think i'll just put some old single wire ones on. Never heard of them failing. What ever happened to extensive product testing????? :scratch:


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 Post subject: Re: Voile Dual Height Climbing Heel issues?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:09 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:55 pm
Posts: 290
Location: Whistler, Coast Mtns
Lasted 5 tours w my Blazes.
I took the plastic off for this last tour hoping to prevent issues.

Another problem popped up for me though.

Had to do some hardpack sidehilling so a took out my Chomps crampons. Couldn't get them to fit in w the dual heel lifters. When I first got my Mr Chomps played around at home just to make sure I could pull them out on the fly and slap them in. Yesterday they wouldn't fit in so I was sidehilling pretty hard w the dual lifters.....busted.
After getting home I've noticed the dual lifters are slightly wider than my old stock lifters. The Chomps will fit in but I have to take the binding off, slide the crampon in, and then slide the pin in. The higher lifter bar doesn't lay flat but rather on the crampon lifter attachment.

Got a new pair of Dual Heights in the mail(Thanks Voile).
I really don't want to have to take off my binding to attach the crampons, looks like some minor milling of the crampon could take off just enough to make it work. Not sure if i can mode anything to get the higher lifter bar to sit flat on the crampon.

Here's hoping the boys at Spark will make the necessary adjustments for future production of crampons.



After thinking about this, I'm stoked to see newer gear I just wish there was some way to make gear more compatible between competitors.

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 Post subject: Re: Voile Dual Height Climbing Heel issues?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 6:02 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 1:57 am
Posts: 1110
Location: Santa Barbara, CA/Ashland, OR
SteveP wrote:
5th tour and mine broke too - short climbing wire found a home in the snow somewhere. Got a new set from Voile very quickly (no sleeves on the wires) but honestly i don't want them - clankety clank clank - geezus i hate noises coming from my gear. Think i'll just put some old single wire ones on. Never heard of them failing. What ever happened to extensive product testing????? :scratch:


If I recall there was a real demand about a year ago for these to be released. They spent as much time as they could, but real product testing takes place when the rest of us get to abuse the gear.

As a consumer, I'm glad that manufacturers will take a small risk to get the product to market for us. As long as they fix it when we tell em what's lacking....

FWIW, I just didn't use the higher riser very often, and they aren't compatible with my og Mr. Chomps, so I just put the standard riser back on. I do agree though that the lower riser on the dual bars is oriented in a much more friendly well for whippet/pole handle lifting/closing.

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 Post subject: Re: Voile Dual Height Climbing Heel issues?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 4:45 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:15 pm
Posts: 295
Location: Washington
This is some adhesive foamy stuff from an old pair of binders. Stomp pad or something. Anyway it's working great. No clack clack.
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 Post subject: Re: Voile Dual Height Climbing Heel issues?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 6:37 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:10 pm
Posts: 1413
Location: UT
I only bought these to get the longer wire because Voile stopped selling them (or so I thought)...
I've since ditched the dual hinge part and the short wire and use only the old single style hinge + the longer wire, w/ no problems... :thumpsup:

In case any one else is thinking about this, you can order the 72mm wires separately, they just don't advertise them on the Voile site... :scratch:

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 Post subject: Re: Voile Dual Height Climbing Heel issues?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:59 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 1:34 pm
Posts: 104
my single climbing wire rig just shit the bed yesterday.. looks like it is pushing backwards into the mount and wearing/breaking it. It was making some craking noises as I was trying to get home yesterday. I have to find a replacement, but don't want to have the voile dual bars cheese out on me next.

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