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 Post subject: Re: Karakoram?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 1:03 pm 
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Posts: 522
UTAH wrote:
HikeforTurns wrote:
Its no wonder Voile hasnt come up with the board clips when the guys are romping around on 10 year old swallowtails because they are "good enough". :doobie:


Quote:
This gets to the heart of the problem in splitboarding tech until 3 or 4 seasons ago, and in voile until last year (sort of...).


I don't understand this thinking. You guys don't have a fraction of the experience and know how that these hardcore guys have. These guys are the real deal. I get the chance to get out with some sick "pro" riders, they drop everything at the chance to get out and learn from guys like Brett and you guys just get on here and bash people and companies that have paved the road for companies like Karakorem and Jones. Shit these new companies are getting in the game 4th quarter with a 50 point lead and 10 seconds left on the clock. Everythings been essentially done for them...now all they need is guys who read a review like that and eat it up without thinking on their own.


You are right I don't have the same level of experience as the Voile crew. That said, would you not agree that things in the splitboard world were a bit stagnant until recently? I don't mean to discount what Voile did when they built the first split or came up with the interface. I don't mean to insult their employees. What I do mean to point out is that it seems that nothing was being done with R&D in terms of trying to improve the product. I could be wrong because I don't know them like you do UTAH. But from the outside, that is how it looks.

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 Post subject: Re: Karakoram?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 1:52 pm 
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^^^^ You guys are right. I just don't think this is unique to Voile or the splitboard world. It's how most snowboard companies work, politics works, business works, etc.

Look at that review for example, is this moving in a positive direction. It seemed to me he was trying to sell a product not inform the reader. Kind of bugged me, sorry for calling it as I see it.


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 Post subject: Re: Karakoram?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 3:19 pm 
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I see this all the time with gear reviews. Backcountry.com and similar are one place to go to get first hand unbiased opinions of gear from multiple sources (though not so much in the splitboard world) Whereas anyone who gets free gear from an outdoor company will likely give a favorable review of said gear to not upset them. Allthough this can happen on backcountry.com as well. For example reading a review of smith goggles from Chris Davenport when he is sponsored by them.

In the case of Spark and Karakoram, im sure they are just trying to get their product in the hands of rippers for a good assesment and some street cred. Personally, theyd be better off giving out sets to the splitters on this board. :headbang:

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 Post subject: Re: Karakoram?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 4:17 pm 
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HikeforTurns wrote:
I see this all the time with gear reviews. Backcountry.com and similar are one place to go to get first hand unbiased opinions of gear from multiple sources (though not so much in the splitboard world) Whereas anyone who gets free gear from an outdoor company will likely give a favorable review of said gear to not upset them. Allthough this can happen on backcountry.com as well. For example reading a review of smith goggles from Chris Davenport when he is sponsored by them.


qft. Every "official" magazine review of a product I've seen dealing with splitboards is pure crap. And I get sick of sponsered people on bc.com leaving reviews although it is the best place to get feedback from people that actually bought their own stuff.
The only good reviews of any product come from people who didn't get the shit for free. Keep in mind consumer reports BUYS all of the products it tests. IF YOU DIDN'T PAY FOR THE PRODUCT DON'T REVIEW IT BECAUSE YOU CANNOT BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY...IMO

As for the K clips: I've been using them a shit ton this year. They're awesome (unless you have some crappy cap construction :mrgreen:)
There are no cons compared to chinese hooks. If you say weight you are just a huge vag and an idiot. Chinese hooks are a great example of Voile showing no interest in advancing their product. They are a SKI company. And I hear they use handicapped, minority midgets working 14 hour shifts with no breaks getting paid 2$/hr to build their boards. At least it's what a friend told me. /voile bashing

On a side note, I've been using my Blazes a lot (I like them) and for the people who think Karakorams might have icing issues I had my Blazes ice up hard on me after skinning on a southerly aspect then having to transition on a northerly. The entire rails iced up as well as huge chunks I had to chisel off on the foot platform. Took forever to get them on my pucks and had to scratch the shit outta the paint to get it all off. the K clips only needed to have the inside of the board halves cleaned, but no icing issues with the actual mechanism whatsoever.

Even though I'm rockin' blazes I already know I'm gonna be riding Karakorams next year. I decided to let them get a few issues I know will be figured out, so I returned mine. I played with the product. I know how awesome they are. I know they will have the same or less icing issues than Sparks. Bitching about icing is just whining anyway. In certain conditions nothing ices and sometimes everything ices. Deal with it. Performance and durability are all that matters.
KARAKORAM>SPARKS hands down. Blazes are really nice in pow, but they're just too flimsy for hard pack although they will get you by and there really isn't a better alternative. I won't even get into light rails :wink:

The best thing about buying a product is it gives me the right to bash on their shit. And don't give me the "oh, but they're cool dudes. They smoke weed and are real down to earth" bullshit. Hell, even the CEO of Monsanto has feelings and might be a real nice guy and/or smoke weed.


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 Post subject: Re: Karakoram?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 11:12 am 
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Posts: 296
Location: Washington
^^^regarding blazes icing in the voids next to the toe strap I think Will recomends a light coat of Pam cooking spray. I tried veg oil and it seems to be working. Went throught the ice chipping drill myself...


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 Post subject: Re: Karakoram?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:17 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2009 9:38 pm
Posts: 819
Location: The Belly of Ham baby!!
So what if some dude's setup works 10 years later? Does that mean I should be stuck with old tired gear too? Or even be stuck spending a HUGE amount of my hard earned cash on 20 year old technology? Hell no...

I'll put it this way: If I'm going to spend a bunch of my cash on a mountain bike, I'm going to throw my energy at newer and improved technology. There's no way in hell I'm spending thousands of bucks on a 1989 hardtail... And that's what Voile puck techology is. The 1989 hard tail of snowboarding. Sure it works, but it still sucks compared to what's being designed nowadays.

ehcarley wrote:
UTAH wrote:
[HikeforTurns wrote:]
Its no wonder Voile hasnt come up with the board clips when the guys are romping around on 10 year old swallowtails because they are "good enough". :doobie:


Quote:
This gets to the heart of the problem in splitboarding tech until 3 or 4 seasons ago, and in voile until last year (sort of...).


I don't understand this thinking. You guys don't have a fraction of the experience and know how that these hardcore guys have. These guys are the real deal. I get the chance to get out with some sick "pro" riders, they drop everything at the chance to get out and learn from guys like Brett and you guys just get on here and bash people and companies that have paved the road for companies like Karakorem and Jones. Shit these new companies are getting in the game 4th quarter with a 50 point lead and 10 seconds left on the clock. Everythings been essentially done for them...now all they need is guys who read a review like that and eat it up without thinking on their own.


You are right I don't have the same level of experience as the Voile crew. That said, would you not agree that things in the splitboard world were a bit stagnant until recently? I don't mean to discount what Voile did when they built the first split or came up with the interface. I don't mean to insult their employees. What I do mean to point out is that it seems that nothing was being done with R&D in terms of trying to improve the product. I could be wrong because I don't know them like you do UTAH. But from the outside, that is how it looks.


It is clear as day even to people who don't split: splitboarding WAS stagnant.

At least now voile has a reason to up their game. I put off investing in splitboarding for 5 years because I was poor as hell and couldn't validate spending 900 FRAAAKING bucks on DOOR HINGES!

If some of you haters only knew how much blood, sweat and anxiety happened behind the scenes of both Karakoram and Jones, you might chill out a bit. You have no idea how many people are throwing all their life's energy into creating something positive and innovative... Not just sitting on a product for years without improvement because they are comfortable......

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 Post subject: Re: Karakoram?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:50 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 12:29 pm
Posts: 135
Location: Bend, OR
I ride Voile pucks.....am i stagnant Russman? I can't afford all the new shit, and would rather wait until the kinks are worked out before i can Throw All My Energy into that financial burden. Dude.. you are not the center of the universe. Some people just like to ride snow, and they do it on whatever gear they can.


I tell you what bro brah ya dude. You pick the line, any line. You ride your free "sicker than you" gear and i'll ride my Mojo with pucks. If i beat you to the bottom i get all your gear....and you never post here again.

If you beat me i'll do the same.

The funny thing is I don't read it like people have problems with the actual company. The issue is people like youself you give biased feedback on gear that somebody gave you. I think all of the companies have excellent options and have pro's and con's of their set ups. But the constant stating that the better the gear the better the rider is just getting old dude. WORK ON YOUR SKILL SET!!! That is what determines the ride. If you can't ride a line due to Voile pucks you should stay in the park.

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 Post subject: Re: Karakoram?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:55 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2005 7:43 pm
Posts: 873
^^^^Jlag nailed it and I should really leave it at that but.........Russman it's so hard to not respond to your comments because I think they've done a lot of unfair damage to good companies. You and BG are so focused on talking shit you missed the whole point. Companies improve when they are provided constructive crtitisizm and critical feedback. That's what this was missing and it's why I posted my original post. Some guys on here are too soft and took it the wrong way but if you really want to help Karakorem succeed you need to stop rubbing nutz or whatever the saying is and provide this company with good feedback. Posting shit to the effect of I couldn't split ski before I got these bindings and now I can or I couldn't skin icy slopes until I got these bindings and now I can is bull shit that any splitter riding more than a season would know better than to listen too.

Quote:
It is clear as day even to people who don't split: splitboarding WAS stagnant.


This is the shit that just fires me up. There hasn't been a day since splitboarding began that this shit was stagnant. The splitboard allowed guys to go deeper and ride lines that have never been ridden before. It allowed them to start peicing together creative tours rather than one and done shots. You just don't get it. Your so focused on what Jeremy Jones is riding that you missed the whole point.

Quote:
I put off investing in splitboarding for 5 years because I was poor as hell and couldn't validate spending 900 FRAAAKING bucks on DOOR HINGES!


You put it off because you didn't have the imagination, creativity, balls or know how to get out into the BC, and now you spend your time dogging on guys who did.

Quote:
don't give me the "oh, but they're cool dudes. They smoke weed and are real down to earth" bullshit


Where's this shit coming from, has anyone ever posted such a comment. I feel like you guys have a tendency to pull shit out your ass and post it up. I'm not saying to stop being constrcutively critical of companies, shit bring it on it's essential. I've emailed Voile and told them to get there heads out of there asses as well. I mean shit people who have only been into splitting for a couple years are trying to re-write history on this site. I do however get sick of people getting on and saying shit like "my 2011 Jones kills my 1999 Voile" Fucking idiots of course it does. Have you tried the new RX, probably not so speak to what you know. Capped construction, Iv'e ridden all sorts of boards the difference is minor, and it's reduced a hell of a lot of weight...good, I've been all about the DIY for the fact that up until recently manufactured boards have been too heavy.

Quote:
If some of you haters only knew how much blood, sweat and anxiety happened behind the scenes of both Karakoram and Jones, you might chill out a bit


I'm not that old but it seems the youth today are used to shit just being handed to them that they lack a respect for the people who came before them. You don't have a fucking clue about blood and sweat Russman.


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 Post subject: Re: Karakoram?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 4:36 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2008 11:55 am
Posts: 1009
Location: Wasatch
BGnight wrote:
HikeforTurns wrote:
I see this all the time with gear reviews. Backcountry.com and similar are one place to go to get first hand unbiased opinions of gear from multiple sources (though not so much in the splitboard world) Whereas anyone who gets free gear from an outdoor company will likely give a favorable review of said gear to not upset them. Allthough this can happen on backcountry.com as well. For example reading a review of smith goggles from Chris Davenport when he is sponsored by them.


qft. Every "official" magazine review of a product I've seen dealing with splitboards is pure crap. And I get sick of sponsered people on bc.com leaving reviews although it is the best place to get feedback from people that actually bought their own stuff.
The only good reviews of any product come from people who didn't get the shit for free. Keep in mind consumer reports BUYS all of the products it tests. IF YOU DIDN'T PAY FOR THE PRODUCT DON'T REVIEW IT BECAUSE YOU CANNOT BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY...IMO

As for the K clips: I've been using them a shit ton this year. They're awesome (unless you have some crappy cap construction :mrgreen:)
There are no cons compared to chinese hooks. If you say weight you are just a huge vag and an idiot. Chinese hooks are a great example of Voile showing no interest in advancing their product. They are a SKI company. And I hear they use handicapped, minority midgets working 14 hour shifts with no breaks getting paid 2$/hr to build their boards. At least it's what a friend told me. /voile bashing

On a side note, I've been using my Blazes a lot (I like them) and for the people who think Karakorams might have icing issues I had my Blazes ice up hard on me after skinning on a southerly aspect then having to transition on a northerly. The entire rails iced up as well as huge chunks I had to chisel off on the foot platform. Took forever to get them on my pucks and had to scratch the shit outta the paint to get it all off. the K clips only needed to have the inside of the board halves cleaned, but no icing issues with the actual mechanism whatsoever.

Even though I'm rockin' blazes I already know I'm gonna be riding Karakorams next year. I decided to let them get a few issues I know will be figured out, so I returned mine. I played with the product. I know how awesome they are. I know they will have the same or less icing issues than Sparks. Bitching about icing is just whining anyway. In certain conditions nothing ices and sometimes everything ices. Deal with it. Performance and durability are all that matters.
KARAKORAM>SPARKS hands down. Blazes are really nice in pow, but they're just too flimsy for hard pack although they will get you by and there really isn't a better alternative. I won't even get into light rails :wink:

The best thing about buying a product is it gives me the right to bash on their shit. And don't give me the "oh, but they're cool dudes. They smoke weed and are real down to earth" bullshit. Hell, even the CEO of Monsanto has feelings and might be a real nice guy and/or smoke weed.


You are a fucking dip shit. Last time I was privy to such information all of voile employees make $8-$14 an hour depending on where they work in the company. Plus i see nothing wrong with midgets or minorities but then again I'm not a bigot.

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 Post subject: Re: Karakoram?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 4:43 pm 
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Posts: 522
wasatch surf wrote:
BGnight wrote:
As for the K clips: I've been using them a shit ton this year. They're awesome (unless you have some crappy cap construction :mrgreen:)
There are no cons compared to chinese hooks. If you say weight you are just a huge vag and an idiot. Chinese hooks are a great example of Voile showing no interest in advancing their product. They are a SKI company. And I hear they use handicapped, minority midgets working 14 hour shifts with no breaks getting paid 2$/hr to build their boards. At least it's what a friend told me. /voile bashing



You are a fucking dip shit. Last time I was privy to such information all of voile employees make $8-$14 an hour depending on where they work in the company. Plus i see nothing wrong with midgets or minorities but then again I'm not a bigot.


I think it might be time to check your sarcasm meter Wasatch Surf, 'cause I think it might be broken.

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 Post subject: Re: Karakoram?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 4:51 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:28 pm
Posts: 453
Location: Cottonwood, UT
BGnight wrote:
Blazes are really nice in pow, but they're just too flimsy for hard pack although they will get you by and there really isn't a better alternative. I won't even get into light rails :wink:

How exactly are Sparks too flimsy? They are solid airplane grade aluminum. Sure, everything flexes to some degree but several times when I ride my split inbounds and I hit hard pack I've noticed how much more solid they feel than a traditional binding. Aren't Karakorams aluminum as well?

Please explain.


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 Post subject: Re: Karakoram?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 4:59 pm 
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ehcarley wrote:
wasatch surf wrote:
BGnight wrote:
As for the K clips: I've been using them a shit ton this year. They're awesome (unless you have some crappy cap construction :mrgreen:)
There are no cons compared to chinese hooks. If you say weight you are just a huge vag and an idiot. Chinese hooks are a great example of Voile showing no interest in advancing their product. They are a SKI company. And I hear they use handicapped, minority midgets working 14 hour shifts with no breaks getting paid 2$/hr to build their boards. At least it's what a friend told me. /voile bashing



You are a fucking dip shit. Last time I was privy to such information all of voile employees make $8-$14 an hour depending on where they work in the company. Plus i see nothing wrong with midgets or minorities but then again I'm not a bigot.


I think it might be time to check your sarcasm meter Wasatch Surf, 'cause I think it might be broken.


Sorry I don't understand that sort of humor.

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 Post subject: Re: Karakoram?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:04 pm 
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Lol, I thought he was being sarcastic...I hope he is :lol:
edit: oh shit, he wasn't!

I love this thread and I love all of you :grouphug:

They do abuse their midgets though.


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