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 Post subject: Why havent anyone made a snowboard like this?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:37 am 
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Location: Tromsø, Norway
http://www.dpsskis.com/ski/lotus138
If anyone made a snowboard like this, it would have been an awesome powder snowboard! I like the hugely tapered tail, and submarine shape, and its fattest far from the nose. I think a snowboard like this would float like a dream, and initiate turns easily.

Do you agree?

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 Post subject: Re: Why havent anyone made a snowboard like this?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:28 am 
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They have. It is called the Banana Hammock, made by Lib Tech.

Image

Well, not exactly I guess, the tail isn't tapered. But its got the reverse camber, reverse side cut action going on.

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 Post subject: Re: Why havent anyone made a snowboard like this?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 3:12 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 2:34 pm
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Location: Tromsø, Norway
I have seen the hammock, but the dps lotus havent got reverse sidecut, its got a pretty small sidecut and i think it would be more aggressive(?) than regular reverse sidecut, and i think the lotus shape handles better on the hardpack

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 Post subject: Re: Why havent anyone made a snowboard like this?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 5:16 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:32 pm
Posts: 352
We have, just not on the web :wink: Actually the tapered nose is a design that really does not apply well to snowboards in my opinion. I reckon skis are real soft at the tips and people have taprered them because it is harder to control all that surface area so far away from your single foot that you have to pivot for control. On a board, with your 2 feet located 2 feet apart you have a lot more leverage and control over the tip, Because you have so much more leverage over the tip on a board there is no reason to reduce the amount of surface area up front where you really need it in deep pow, and you can keep the front a lot stiffer than skis too. Really the same goes for reverse sidecuts, no point on a snowboard, no point at all. This is an example of board design following ski design, the same as camber underfoot for my :twocents: no point on a snowboard.


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 Post subject: Re: Why havent anyone made a snowboard like this?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 4:54 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 2:34 pm
Posts: 40
Location: Tromsø, Norway
I think I would disagree with you Scooby2, because the widest part is towards the mid of the board (/skis), you would get the floatation a little bit in front of the binding instead of in the tip, which makes the board easier to manouver (really quick turns) and it makes you lay all the weight between your feet. A board like this would need a pretty big nose rocker so the skinny nose would stay on top, ofcourse

This board, like the Hammock would be for deep powder days ONLY, and the nose and tail does not need to be stiff, to make it playful in the powder. I think it would be a funny board to try out!

Scooby2 wrote:
We have, just not on the web :wink:

Does anyone have any pictures? I am really curious how it would look like, and how it would ride!

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 Post subject: Re: Why havent anyone made a snowboard like this?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 11:01 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 3:53 pm
Posts: 66
Location: Bozeman MT/ Woodinville Wa
the hammock is a freestyle pow boards too, meaning switch pow IS happening, and a center weighted stance is happening. The taperd nose means easy switch pow landings. What i want to see is a board like the hammock with a smidge of sidecut between the feet to get you back to the lift. twin pow resort board. like the dps or a other new pow skis

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 Post subject: Re: Why havent anyone made a snowboard like this?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 11:43 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:32 pm
Posts: 352
Eirik, you are right that the fat in the middle skis and boards would be more pivoty and looser to rotate, think snow saucer, but the (not freestyle) board that will pull itself into a turn really quick when banked and that turns quick off the rail and still has a lot of speed out of turns and push-back from low density snow will be the one with plenty of rocker and full surface area all the way through the board's length. I will work on some pics.

My point is that with the ergonomics of skis, they are harder to rotate and pivot than boards are, and the tips are more prone to get knocked around away from where you want them to go. I think that is where the oval outline is better applied. Think about sitting on a chairlift -I know, its painful- but if you have a ski on your foot it is really easy for someone to push the tip of the ski around aginst your will. If you have a board strapped on both feet, you can push someone over with the nose of the board with all the leverage your two legs have.

So, why are skis longer and boards shorter?

I think part of it is you need longer skis to get functional surface area, but mostly boards all lean towards freestyle, rotations, hand rails etc. and not float, responsiveness, speed and drive in low density snow.


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 Post subject: Re: Why havent anyone made a snowboard like this?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 12:13 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2010 6:04 pm
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Scooby2 wrote:
We have, just not on the web :wink: Actually the tapered nose is a design that really does not apply well to snowboards in my opinion. I reckon skis are real soft at the tips and people have taprered them because it is harder to control all that surface area so far away from your single foot that you have to pivot for control. On a board, with your 2 feet located 2 feet apart you have a lot more leverage and control over the tip, Because you have so much more leverage over the tip on a board there is no reason to reduce the amount of surface area up front where you really need it in deep pow, and you can keep the front a lot stiffer than skis too. Really the same goes for reverse sidecuts, no point on a snowboard, no point at all. This is an example of board design following ski design, the same as camber underfoot for my :twocents: no point on a snowboard.


Camber is pointless? Camber seems to be out of fashion at the moment, but from my own experience, in pow, camber is actually much faster, rising to the top faster, and seems more stable. Rocker feels like a lot of pivoting to edge rather than turning. Maybe its body size too.


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 Post subject: Re: Why havent anyone made a snowboard like this?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 12:02 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:32 pm
Posts: 352
Ah, let me refine that a bit, camber is by no means pointless, but I think putting a little camber just between your feet is of as much use as the camber on the old 145 cm freestyle board with a 27 inch stance, the edge in the middle just gets turned off.
I have not ridden the new semi rockered boards yet, but have tweaked my own boards to have lots of stability, float and drive in turns. I am a speed junkie and just like to make banked-carved pow turns, no smears at all (fanatically so). It could be that the rocker boards mfg now are just a bit too soft in the nose still, so the bend too much and they plow instead of plane over pow, making them slower, hard to say.
If you think about it all boards traveling at speed in powder or soft spring snow do not have a cambered profile, they are flexed into some degree of rocker. So flex as well as the initial camber or rockered shape is every bit as important to having a fast board through pow. Too much curve (shape and flex together) and the board will push snow like a small freestyle board and go slow like a freestyle board.

As far as tails go, if the tail has a preshaped rocker and is pretty soft like a cambered board's tail, the tail really will not hold as much pressure against the snow, so it wont give a lot of float to the board in dry snow. I have the thought that a board or skis rocker should decrease from front to back for maximum flaot or push-back in truly dry snow, but have yet to make such a board.

Also size and weight are huge, when I step down from a 185 to a 175 in dry snow, I exit each turn noticeably slower. Maybe the looseness of a rockered board feels good when you are riding a big long board, and not so good on a 160 something where it is just too loose and not so floaty to begin with?


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 Post subject: Re: Why havent anyone made a snowboard like this?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 2:16 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 2:34 pm
Posts: 40
Location: Tromsø, Norway
Well, guys... Seems like the Atomic dudes read this forum!

Image

Say hello to 11/12 Sir Floatalot!
Regular camber between the feet, big rocker in the tips, and ofcourse early tapered nose and tail! I think this will rip the pow, but not the hard stuff. 8 meter sidecut, and the board is in 163, dont know about other sizes.

Any thoughts?

By the way! look at the binding to the left, wtf is that?

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 Post subject: Re: Why havent anyone made a snowboard like this?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 2:43 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 10:05 am
Posts: 1480
Location: Colorado
Scooby: I mostly agree with your ideas, but, on a splitboard, a little camber underfoot is a good idea to allow for more efficient skinning-and I really do not think a little camber here would hurt the ride performance in any way (of an otherwise rockered board). My Venture is flat through the midsection, and one definitely uses a little more energy when skinning uphill with it, I am convinced that just a little camber could make the skinning way better.

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 Post subject: Re: Why havent anyone made a snowboard like this?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:30 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 7:31 pm
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Location: 802
Eirikverlo@gmail.com wrote:
By the way! look at the binding to the left, wtf is that?

probably the binding for the atomic poacher.

i like the looks of that board, i'd love to take a couple laps on one.


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 Post subject: Re: Why havent anyone made a snowboard like this?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:02 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:32 pm
Posts: 352
Barrows, here's a point to ponder on the skin track through various types of track conditions, do your skins have more purchase when your foot is over a hole and all of the skin in front of your foot is engaged in the snow and all of the skin behind your foot is engaged in the snow as well, but no skin touching snow under your foot?

Or do your skins have more purchase when only the area under your foot is touching the snow

Or when your weight is 50/50 on your touring bracket and heel riser versus when all of your weight is on your heel riser.

Also, how much of an arc is your board bent into as the second or third in a fresh broken track? This one might be unique to Utah, I know


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