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 Post subject: Re: Scarpa F1 and F3
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 7:31 pm 
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Location: UT
Update on the F3 experience...

Ive been out on the 166 mojo with the F3's in most all conditions at this point, including a six+ mile hike over snow, ice, rock and mud.
This past weekend it was super dry powder and wind slab. Although I did not do any riding, I did break significant trail and tried split skiing without skins for the first time... I'm no skier and broke a pole lower, but it was a much better way to travel when riding isn't an option. All courtesy of plates and HB's.

Additionally, on this last trip I convinced myself that the F3's I bought are too big, thanked myself for holding off on mods, and began searching the interweb for a size smaller. (BTW... There are still some screaming F3 deals on gear exchange, etc..)
Later that night while the liners were drying I thought I'd better take the insoles out and let them dry as well.... WTF, There aren't any insoles! (Fuck I'm dumb). :oops:
So I go get my Driver X's and I'm about to pull the SuperFeet out them and the thought occurs to me to just try the DX liners in the F3... Wow, what a difference, perfect sizing, molded to my feet and the cuff is about 2" lower and flexy...(of course they smell of death funk too, but... :shock: )
While both liners felt great with an actual insole, I like the Burton's better than the (unmolded) Scarpa/Intuitions in a side by side comparison... Might be a useful tip for those considering a conversion to HB's to try their current liners...

:scratch: I don't know if I should be concerned, but I can flex the hell out of these boots (particularly with the Burton liners). It honestly felt like I was collapsing the shell during carpet testing (Indoors 70° F). Any thoughts? I also ditched the power strap...
In any event, I'm finally going to break out the 195 ST this weekend with the F3's (Yes I'm slightly frightened ) and go play in all the new powder. I hope these posts are useful to others, if not feel free to tell me to give it a rest...

Cheers!

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 Post subject: Re: Scarpa F1 and F3
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 7:59 pm 
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Location: Wasatch
I strongly suggest molding your scarpa liners molded vs non molded is a world of difference. If your boots are little too big this site sells all sorts of shims and padding to give a more custom fit http://tognar.com/boot_heater_warmer_fi ... board.html

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 Post subject: Re: Scarpa F1 and F3
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 11:24 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 9:06 pm
Posts: 214
Location: Udapimp, Idaho
+1
A proper molding with a proper footbed and i'll bet your fit issues go away.
another option could be a high volume liner from Intuition, same overall size with more material to create a better fit for skinny feet.

I often swap liners from boot to boot, The flex & fit differences in the same boot shells can be amazing. I use a pair out of nordica race ski boots (fits my foot as well as any molded liner) for a stiff flex and a molded thermoflex out of Raichles for soft flex, both fit perfect and really change the boot's flex.

"I can flex the hell out of these boots (particularly with the Burton "
This sounds like a good thing, I doubt you'll crack the shells in normal use :thumpsup:

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 Post subject: Re: Scarpa F1 and F3
PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 10:08 am 
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Location: Colorado
Snurfer: what size are your F3s? I might know of a buyer if you really think they are too big...

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 Post subject: Re: Scarpa F1 and F3
PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 11:40 am 
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Location: UT
Snurfer wrote:
Later that night while the liners were drying I thought I'd better take the insoles out and let them dry as well.... WTF, There aren't any insoles! (Fuck I'm dumb). :oops:
So I go get my Driver X's and I'm about to pull the SuperFeet out them and the thought occurs to me to just try the DX liners in the F3... Wow, what a difference, perfect sizing, molded to my feet and the cuff is about 2" lower and flexy...(of course they smell of death funk too, but... :shock: )
While both liners felt great with an actual insole, I like the Burton's better than the (unmolded) Scarpa/Intuitions in a side by side comparison... Might be a useful tip for those considering a conversion to HB's to try their current liners...
!
Sorry guys, I tend to jump from one thought to another without finishing the first... The lack of insoles was the problem, not the size... It just so happened that the lower cuffed, heat molded Burton's felt even better, but all is good on the size, regardless of the liner being used... Sorry for the confusion :?

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 Post subject: Re: Scarpa F1 and F3
PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 11:47 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 10:05 am
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Location: Colorado
No worries man! I am just looking for a pair of F3s to mod up.
do yourself a favor, and get a good bootfitter to make you some kork vac custom insles, and get the Scarpa liners molded by him while you are at it. The Scarpa liners are really good, and I think you'll find them way better than the D-X liners when properly fitted!

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Never Summer Prospector 167X, furberg 173 DIY, Dynafit TLT5/6 Mountain , Phantom Bindings, BD Glidelite Skins
Quiver Killer inserts

http://protectourwinters.org/
http://14ersnowboardproject.homestead.com/


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 Post subject: Re: Scarpa F1 and F3
PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 11:16 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2008 7:38 pm
Posts: 398
Location: Eugene and Coos Bay, Oregon.
Yes, liners and proper bootfitting are important. It is a strange concept for us snowboarders, but these are ski boots not our normal buy and ride softboots.

I did not like my F1 liners and currently am using the liners from my carving hardboots. Before that I had been using the liners out of my softboots.

Try different liners if you have them.


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 Post subject: Re: Scarpa F1 and F3
PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 2:31 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2005 9:35 pm
Posts: 110
I've got a pair of used 28.5 F3s if anyone is interested, never got the fit right for my feet. Have been used but no mods.


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 Post subject: Re: Scarpa F1 and F3
PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 12:35 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 7:13 am
Posts: 28
Location: Chamonix
Hi all

I have been reading your comments with much interest because i am nearly about to go out and get some F1's based on all your comments. I have a few questions though does anyone actually ride these without mods at least at the beginning to see how it goes? Do people generally ride in the "walk" mode with the rear leaver in the up position or in ski mode.

One of the things i like about these boots is the price they are much cheaper than many of the alternatives out there, i know its a thread about F1's and 3's but, what are other people riding in the way of hard boots, the dynafit tlt5's are too expensive, 500 Euros over here compared to 399 for the f1's.

Thanks to all for the info already given, does stephen koch ride them without mods would be interesting to know.

Cheers

Jim :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Scarpa F1 and F3
PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 4:41 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:10 pm
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Location: UT
I'm probably the noob here, but I've had a couple months of varied experiences from long tours breaking trail in dry powder, and riding that powder. To hiking six miles with all my gear on my back over rock, mud and ice,. To riding boiler plate and boot packing...

I have not modded my F3's and I've ridden them on a Voile Mojo 166 and Voile Swallowtail 195... I've taken off the power strap, and mine did not have insoles in the liners, so I added insoles...

I've changed my rear foot stance from 0° to +5° on both boards... I ride and tour in walk mode, although I cinch all clasps down for riding and slightly loosen them for skinning... Skinning and carrying the skis in hand (e.g., impromptu boot sections, walking to trail heads, etc.) is so much better than strap bindings, there isn't any similarity... My skinning technique has improved as has my pace and stamina.

However... It can be intimidating being so locked in, but in reality its just a matter of adjusting to the hyper sensitivity, and lack of delay from rider input to board reaction.... I don't do tricks, so I can't comment on that style of riding, other than to say olies and butters can be done with a lot of torque and immediate board reaction...

Hope this rambling helps :D

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 Post subject: Re: Scarpa F1 and F3
PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 5:34 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2008 7:38 pm
Posts: 398
Location: Eugene and Coos Bay, Oregon.
jimcoates wrote:
Hi all

I have been reading your comments with much interest because i am nearly about to go out and get some F1's based on all your comments. I have a few questions though does anyone actually ride these without mods at least at the beginning to see how it goes? Do people generally ride in the "walk" mode with the rear leaver in the up position or in ski mode.

One of the things i like about these boots is the price they are much cheaper than many of the alternatives out there, i know its a thread about F1's and 3's but, what are other people riding in the way of hard boots, the dynafit tlt5's are too expensive, 500 Euros over here compared to 399 for the f1's.

Thanks to all for the info already given, does stephen koch ride them without mods would be interesting to know.

Cheers

Jim :wink:


I just got to try my Magic Cube modified F1s today (pictured earlier in this thread). Awesome. Just like on a softboot highback, for skinning I put it on the lowest setting then for riding I put it on the highest setting and had a perfect highback stop on the heelsides. The Magic Cube is a bit rubbery and gives a nice firm stop that is not abrupt.

Jim, I first tested them with both stock and softened tongues before modifying them. Way too stiff for me. An overly stiff boot sucks! I have seen someone that rides them stock but most splitboarders have removed the ride mechanism and just have a walk mode. As I have mentioned, that creates heelside issues because the boot will flex back too far and you cannot effectively pressure the edge on heelside (except in good powder). That is why I went with the Magic Cube mod.

Edit to add: Jim, the F1s can only be ridden in ski mode when stock. The walk/ride bar is a part of the upper buckle. In walk mode, the F1s upper buckle is always undone. There is no way around this without modifying them.

I think in the video or article that I saw, Steve Koch rides them with the ride mode bar removed and a top buckle installed (walk mode without a highback stop).


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 Post subject: Re: Scarpa F1 and F3
PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 8:25 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 10:05 am
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Location: Colorado
Hi Jim,

I see you are in Cham, I must admit to being a little envious!
On to boots. Everybody rides with a little bit different style, after all this is snowboarding. My thoughts apply to me: I must have forward lean to ride well, so I do not ride in walk mode. The problem then becomes that most AT boots lock the cuff from flexing forward when one locks in the lean, and for snowboarding, forward flex is necessary. Buell's mod to the F1 allows for forward flex, with forward lean, but limits the rearward flex for touring-in the alps, I suspect there will be some touring on the flats, and here one wants the boot to be able to flex backwards.
I ride Dynafit Zzero 3's, with extensive mods: I slot the forward lean adjuster to allow forward flex with locked in lean, I trim the both the inner shell and the cuff to allow for softer medial and lateral flex, I change the tongue to the very soft Scarpa touring tongue, and I remove the lowest buckle to save weight. Certainly, if you go with the F1s, try them stock, but be prepared to spend a considerable amount of time and effort modding them if you want to get the absolute best performance. Searching the various threads here will give you lots of ideas for mods-my one advice is to go slowly with mods, especially trimming the shells-do one mod at a time, and then ride test. It may take ten days or more of this to really get the boots to be perfect, but it will be worth it. Through careful modding and testing it is possible to get AT boots to perform exactly the way you want them to; it just takes a patient, ingenious, and creative approach to achieve a perfect boot.
BTW, I expect the new TLT 5s could mod up into an amazing boot, but the price is high as you note, and my inspection of these boots also notes that the liner is very thin (they save weight by making the shell smaller, and very close fitting), this could lead to warmth problems in the coldest conditions.
I also prefer the Scarpa F3 to the F1 (the F3 is discontinued in the US, are they still distributed in Europe?) as its forward lean adjuster is a little easier to mod for free forward flex (by slotting the adjustment hole in the forward lean bar)

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Never Summer Prospector 167X, furberg 173 DIY, Dynafit TLT5/6 Mountain , Phantom Bindings, BD Glidelite Skins
Quiver Killer inserts

http://protectourwinters.org/
http://14ersnowboardproject.homestead.com/


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 Post subject: Re: Scarpa F1 and F3
PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 11:08 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2008 7:38 pm
Posts: 398
Location: Eugene and Coos Bay, Oregon.
The magic cube mod only interferes with my skinning stride a small amount when compared to an F1 that is fully free
to flex backwards.

At the moment these are my easier day powder boots. The F3s are for bigger days and corn riding.


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