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 Post subject: Re: My curmudgeonly thoughts on hardboots
PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:43 am 
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Location: Colorado
Quit TGR'in it up your fuckers!

Different strokes for different folks.
While you guys are debating the nuances of your snazzy gear, we are getting pounded with snow!

Go outside please...

BP 10-26-2010
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 Post subject: Re: My curmudgeonly thoughts on hardboots
PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 12:10 pm 
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Location: Udapimp, Idaho
As an asshat jong with unpopular ideas, I love the use of TGR as a verb :lol:
I'm gettin out fri but with 1-1.5ft of baseless snow, will be hoofin' with a rockboard in the pack. > :poke:
Need to get cuttin on my old sims for a rocksplitter.

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 Post subject: Re: My curmudgeonly thoughts on hardboots
PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 12:11 pm 
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Location: Colorado
Pedro:

Impossible to disagree with your post!
Where is this photo from by the way?

thanks,

barrows

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 Post subject: Re: My curmudgeonly thoughts on hardboots
PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 1:59 pm 
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Let's not overuse the TGR reference. It's o.k to dork out and debate shit, that's what this website's all about. You might not find it useful but someone else will. The reason this comes up every year for the past 10+ years is because people are interested in it and want to find out more info. It kind of reminds me of when people get on and make stupid comments about how that guy took too many turns down the mountain and he should have straighted it and hit that 60 footer and then the same person post a TR and all they did was make squiggles down the mountain. If you try hardboots then get on here an criticize but don't be the kook who criticizes shit they know nothing about. Guys want good info and if your ignorant (not knowing) becuase you've never tried it don't post, it's bad info for guys who want to know more.


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 Post subject: Re: My curmudgeonly thoughts on hardboots
PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 2:53 pm 
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Location: Udapimp, Idaho
Here's an excerpt of my post from a "hard boots on wide boards" thread on bomber, though not done on a split the info is relevant;

comparison
I did a direct comparison last season on a 173 x 25 Idendity all mountain soft board between new Flows with Burton drivers, new BurtonSI with Mojos at 25*/38* vrs old Nitro stepins with Raichle 124s w/soft flex liners at 28*/40*.
The conditions were rough groom with 1ft of fresh med. dense snow off piste.

I agree that the over all stiffness of these setups was very similar but thats were it ends.
The flow+driver is a great setup as far as laceups go with lots of soft, even lateral flex and starts soft but bottoms out forward flex. (Conventional straps lessen the bottoming out but soften the overall feel IMO). The burton stepins had bit firmer lateral flex (which I like)and softer but more even forward flex.
The highback response on the flows was softer than the burtonSI which was equal to the Raichles w/out BTS. Love the ease of use of the flows but hate the bulk.
On groomer the ride was similar but less responsive with the drivers + flow than the soft HB+ plates.
In the uneven early season pow, I found it much easier to stuff the nose and go over the handle bars with the ecxess lateral flex of the drivers where the stiffer plate setup forced the board through and kept it underneath me. The softies carved the groom just fine but the more even flex and better response of the raichles ruled on and off piste.

Comfort of the molded liners in the raichles was way better than the drivers with custom foot beds Due to the crushing effect of any strap binding. The burton SI was more comfy than the drivers+flow but my ankles/feet got tired and painful much quicker than in the HBs due to shell deformation and the extra ankle strength reguired to drive soft boots.

In summary, since don't do park or tweak airs, I find no need drag out a secondary system that has less durability and response with more bulk, fuss factor and foot pain than the simple stepin system, usable for stiff skinny race, or soft wide powder boards, that I've been using for well over a decade with no breakage issues.

Hard setups can and will over power soft freeride boards if you drive them too hard. But like cars, I'd rather drive one that's over-powerd than under-powered, just keep a light foot to stay in control to avoid breakage.


just anecdotal experience and food for thought

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 Post subject: Re: My curmudgeonly thoughts on hardboots
PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 9:37 am 
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Location: Colorado
barrows wrote:
Impossible to disagree with your post!
Where is this photo from by the way?


Thanks for the vote of confidence!
This is of course Berthoud Pass, my Adam Sandler "Happy Place"

BTW:

Nobody mentioned Damian Sanders! (OG Hard-Booter Extraordinaire) Am I that old? Or have we not been doing our homework?

PS: I am loving the "TGR" as a verb, but will use it sparingly from now on and only when its applicable.

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 Post subject: Re: My curmudgeonly thoughts on hardboots
PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 4:01 pm 
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Location: Seattle
barrows wrote:

It takes about a season of tweaking to really figure out the best mods and set up to get hard boots to where they outperform softs in every category (except price).



I got some Scarpa Magic's over a year ago and found them to be nicer for touring mode, but uninspiring for the quality of your downhill ride. What are some of the "mods" that you have done for your set up?


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 Post subject: Re: My curmudgeonly thoughts on hardboots
PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 4:39 pm 
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Priorrider-see the "boots" forum, and note the Zzero 3 threads by both myself and Karkis. Also check out other hard boot threads with notes from Buell on the Scarpa F-1 and F-3. There are lots of possible mods, from slotting the forward lean adjuster to allow for easier forward flex while using lean, to various ways of trimming the shells to adjust the medial, lateral, and forward flex. Additionally changing the boot tongues can change the flex as well. Scarpa makes a "hinged" touring tongue that can fit many boots, and allows for easier flex.

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 Post subject: Re: My curmudgeonly thoughts on hardboots
PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 8:10 pm 
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PedroDelfuego wrote:
Nobody mentioned Damian Sanders! (OG Hard-Booter Extraordinaire) Am I that old? Or have we not been doing our homework?
I'm old too... from the Scarpa F1/F3 thread....

Snurfer wrote:
Indeed, I have been wanting to try HB's since the days of Damian Sanders throwing huge airs on his 171 in Koflachs...

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 Post subject: Re: My curmudgeonly thoughts on hardboots
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 7:28 am 
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Location: The Kootenays
mods? dynafit tlt3's with morrow/intuition liners. Buckled up tight in sketchy terrain, otherwise loose.

Find it interesting that you soft booters find it necessary to question our choice of boots...how often do we read threads entitled "convince me to try hardboots" or "hardbooters: post a steezy pic of yourself riding and maybe I'll try hardboots". And then you get testy when we tell you to try them. Kinda reminds me of xtian evangelists getting uptight at the "aggressive atheists".

When was the last time you saw a thread/posting from a hardbooter demanding a reason why he should try softboots?

just my curmudgeonly thoughts on softbooters

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 Post subject: Re: My curmudgeonly thoughts on hardboots
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 8:09 am 
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InTheMountains wrote:
mods? dynafit tlt3's with morrow/intuition liners. Buckled up tight in sketchy terrain, otherwise loose.

Find it interesting that you soft booters find it necessary to question our choice of boots...how often do we read threads entitled "convince me to try hardboots" or "hardbooters: post a steezy pic of yourself riding and maybe I'll try hardboots". And then you get testy when we tell you to try them. Kinda reminds me of xtian evangelists getting uptight at the "aggressive atheists".

When was the last time you saw a thread/posting from a hardbooter demanding a reason why he should try softboots?

just my curmudgeonly thoughts on softbooters


Classic post! I have a partner that uses older Dynafit TLT series boots, these are indeed quite soft in stock form, and can offer good perfromance stock. My partner has done some mods, upgrading the buckles, and adding a molded liner, but no shell or tongue mods. If one can find a pair of these in their size they are definitely worth a try.

How 'bout this, what is wrong with soft boots:

Terrible climbing performance, bulky boot footprint is imprecise when climbing/scrambling
Uncomfortable, binding straps crush feet, and make make feet cold
Terrible touring performance
Heavy
Hard to deal with in camping conditions
Antiquated binding strap system is prone to breaking, and very bulky
Entering and exiting the binding is awkard, especially in exposed locations
Laces (boa is better, but can also break) are hard to deal with in the backcountry and prone to breaking

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 Post subject: Re: My curmudgeonly thoughts on hardboots
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 11:55 am 
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Location: vancouver, bc
I have an observation, and I would be interested to hear what you think:
I noticed that hard boot are generally more popular with people living more interior locations - Colorado, Idaho, Utah, Revelstoke, Golden....

probably you guys are just dialed riders who are living in the mountains and know what's up...

but also, maybe, please tell me if I'm wrong, stiffer boots are better suited to the type of riding that is common in these locations: wide open, fast, steep, big slopes, unrelenting long runs...

in contrast to the more undulating micro-terrain that is common in the more coastal mountain ranges (even in the big mountains), which happens to be so much fun on a snowboard, but maybe favours slightly more flexible boots and bindings.

If you are you saying that properly modified hard boots don't necessarily mean overly stiff boots, then I have no doubt that they could work well here too.


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 Post subject: Re: My curmudgeonly thoughts on hardboots
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 12:03 pm 
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Location: Colorado
"If you are you saying that properly modified hard boots don't necessarily mean overly stiff boots, then I have no doubt that they could work well here too."

This is exactly what I am saying. My hardboots are now a little softer than my Driver Xs in a stiff soft binding (Hybrid Burton C-14 carbon, with Team Skybacks) and tight straps.
Although Colorado has high altitudes, the mountains are really not that "big" per se, as most riding is done between 10,000' and 13,000'. We ride plenty of tight trees around here, and short chutes and cliffy sections, so we need versatile equipment. I have ridden Vermont, and places like the backcountry around Mt. Mansfield does have even tighter terrain-I might choose a smaller board to ride there, but my boots would work fine.

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Quiver Killer inserts

http://protectourwinters.org/
http://14ersnowboardproject.homestead.com/


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