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 Post subject: Re: Scarpa F1 and F3
PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 3:39 pm 
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Location: Eugene and Coos Bay, Oregon.
Snurfer wrote:
Then again, I may just grind off the two stops then make one more hole (essentially where you extended the top hole). I'm looking for forward lean of between 27-29° to match my soft binder setup.
Stiffness wise I think I'll be okay where the boots are (never ridden HB's, so I may be eating crow), but the tongue mod is not out of the question either. BTW.. These boots are very comfortable.


If you have the boot locked in a hole, rather than a slot, on the walk / ski mechanism, then thinning the tongue (softening it) will have much less effect on the stiffness. When locked in a hole, the boot stiffness comes from boot deformation and not the tongue. When free to travel in a slot or in walk mode, the boot shell freely pivots at the upper cuff / lower section connection (it is the cant adjuster on a lot of boots but not on the F1s and F3s) and the tongue has much more influence.

AT boots will be stiffer in colder riding temperatures than at room temperature (when we do so much carpet testing). Obviously, make small mods at a time since it is hard to go back. If you think you will be happy with the current stiffness, do not change it until you ride them.

+1 on discussing the plate integrated bails with Will. Karakorum might be interested in the idea as well. The simplicity and weight of this idea is super appealing. The rigidity and vibration transfer could be issues that need to be resolved. More options please!

Ready for more snow and I just stopped last week! :cry:


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 Post subject: Re: Scarpa F1 and F3
PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 7:37 pm 
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Location: Eugene and Coos Bay, Oregon.
Magic Cubed F1s

After pulling off the walk / ski system (always in walk mode) and installing a top buckle on my F1s I had found that they performed poorly on heelsides. This was because there was no stop to act as a highback.

I t-nutted a little aluminum square to the back (pictured earlier in the thread) to act as a stop. It worked fairly well, but was not adjustable and limited my range of motion a bit while skinning but did not quite give me as much forward lean as I wanted.

Dishwasher-dave had mentioned that he thought the Magic Cube from Bent Metal would work. I had considered something like the Magic Cube before I installed the fixed aluminum square but went with the square because it could sit on a ridge on the back of the F1 for extra support.

Not totally satisfied with the non-adjustable aluminum piece I went for the Magic Cube mod in the end. Spark had them for $4 each so I bought a couple. I ground down some additional plastic on the back of the boot so they would spin and screwed them right into the T-nut that had been holding the aluminum square. It is not snow tested, but it seems like it works perfectly. It gets the back of the boot out of the way for skinning and locks in the forward lean for riding.

The only question is strength. The Cube is held in place only by a t-nut and screw that passes through the back of the boot plastic. The plastic is pretty thick and I expect it should take the load on heelsides.

This mod should work on other boots as well, but I would first try the mod I did to my F3s walk / ski bar when possible.

ImageImage


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 Post subject: Re: Scarpa F1 and F3
PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 11:52 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 6:51 am
Posts: 717
Location: Surfing or Splitboarding Downunder
Guys
The HB option interested me soo much I got my hands on a pair of "Raichle Snowboarder" boots.
At this stage I am not going to do any mods until I get them out there.
Image

Image

The lean mech seems to work in the locked and unlocked position

Image

All I have done is put a set of Burton Driver liners in.

Image

I have tried to get some info on these boots but have had no luck online.
They must be fairly old due to the funky fluoro Purple and green?
What binding are you guys using?
The voile one seems cheep?
Any feedback would be good.
I'll post some more info when they get a few KM's on them.

Cheers

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 Post subject: Re: Scarpa F1 and F3
PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 12:29 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 03, 2009 10:48 am
Posts: 49
Buell
Quote:
Not totally satisfied with the non-adjustable aluminum piece I went for the Magic Cube mod in the end. Spark had them for $4 each so I bought a couple. I ground down some additional plastic on the back of the boot so they would spin and screwed them right into the T-nut that had been holding the aluminum square. It is not snow tested, but it seems like it works perfectly. It gets the back of the boot out of the way for skinning and locks in the forward lean for riding.

The only question is strength. The Cube is held in place only by a t-nut and screw that passes through the back of the boot plastic. The plastic is pretty thick and I expect it should take the load on heelsides.



What I really like is your simplicty of redesigning the F1 boot with the "Magic Parts". I hope to here how this modification held-up after a season of use.

BTW F1 AT Boots are on sale at http://www.sierratradingpost.com/p/,2787K_Scarpa-F1-AT-Ski-Boots-For-Men-and-Women.html

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 Post subject: Re: Scarpa F1 and F3
PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 1:28 pm 
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Location: Eugene and Coos Bay, Oregon.
Hey firstlight, you will probably get more info from others if you start a new thread about your boots. This one is about Scarpa F1s and F3s.

Buell


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 Post subject: Re: Scarpa F1 and F3
PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 4:23 pm 
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Posts: 49
Stephen Koch (see http://www.stephenkoch.com) gave an excellent review of the Scarpa F1 in Backcountry.com:

'F1 - Great Splitboard Boot!

By: Stephen Koch
April 7, 2010

The F1's are a great boot for splitboarding. I removed the tongue on the back boot to soften them up. The bellows makes for smooth and comfortable uphill riding and even offers a bit of flex on the way down, which is a benefit to me as a snowboarder. I use Dynafit toe pieces for the up and have been using both Voile Mountain Plates and Burton Race Plates for the riding. The board I am rocking is a Rome Split Proto that is super light and fun.

I love the fact that I can DRIVE MY CAR safely in these boots! It is so nice to get to the trailhead and GO without having to change into boots. I am so stoked to find this boot and get back into hard boot splitboarding. I was over the challenges of splitting with a soft boot setup. Even though the Spark Fuse Soft Splitboard Binding is great it doesn't help much with traversing firm sidehills.

These boots are difficult to get in, to have my heel drop into the pocket, but I imagine this will get easier with time.

I have a fairly wide foot and once I baked the liners I had the room needed for comfort and warmth around the bellows. The cord holding the rubber ball to open and close the tour/ski latch broke the first time I used it. I drilled out the cord and threaded a simple cord through that is holding nicely for the time being.

I also used these boots hiking Glory Bowl on Teton Pass after doing a tour up West Mail Cabin on the West side of the pass. It is a pleasure to have a firm toe to use on the firm and snowy steps heading up to the top of Glory.

Bottom line: I think you will be seeing many more snowboarders using hard boots for splitboarding and backcountry riding in general and the F1's are the best I have found!

For more in depth reviews check out my website - www.stephenkoch.com' (HARD BOOTS VS. SOFT BOOTS FOR SNOWBOARD MOUNTAINEERING –)

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Venture Storm R 163 (2010) with Dynafit Bindings, F1 Scarpa Boots, Snowpro Race Plate Bindings * Nitro Retro Swallowtail 171 (DIY Splitboard), Burton Fish 156 * Vans BOA "Klutch" Step-in Snowboard Boot and Switch X Bindings


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 Post subject: Re: Scarpa F1 and F3
PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:01 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2008 7:38 pm
Posts: 398
Location: Eugene and Coos Bay, Oregon.
Nice find Pow-D!

Sounds like he rides them in walk mode with no other modifications.

The link at the bottom of your post, to his website, has an extra apostrophe and does not work. The top link works. It is good reading.


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 Post subject: Re: Scarpa F1 and F3
PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 1:58 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:10 pm
Posts: 1431
Location: UT
First Impressions of HB riding (Scarpa F3)

Did my first HB tour today in the F3's.... Voile Mojo 166 and Voile Mnt Plates.

Skinning is a whole different world, and a very pleasant world it is.... If Dyna fit toes pieces are even half again the improvement that HB's are over soft boots and straps, all I can say is wow!

My first ride was down a fairly narrow, 30° powder filled couloir, which is not something I've done a lot of and normally sketches me a out in soft boots.
Heel side turns seemed pretty normal, no sketch. Toe side caused me to panic a bit and lean way onto the tail, wheelie out and drag my trailing hand..

The second run was breakable crust on a 25° pitch with shallow coverage. This time I left the top buckle and booster strap undone and I rode just fine... It felt more like my soft setup with out all the squish and bulk. BTW... Olies and butters in hard boots are awesome, body to board input is direct with no lag at all. Torque for days.

The third run was frozen cat track (with deep track patterns made of ice) that varied between 10° and 20°. I was very apprehensive about this section and being so "locked in". Mostly because my 166 is so squirly in these conditions, but it was fine.

So far I think its pretty awesome. The improvement in touring is phenomenal.
Transitioning is a breeze and shouldering the boards going from the car to the trail without all the bulk and shit (of strap binders) flopping around is priceless. As is getting in and out of the setup in deep snow and on precarious perches. Booting was painless.

Am I convert? Not yet, but the reduction in effort to skin made what would have been a marginal day quite enjoyable. Only time will tell on the riding aspect, but my first impression was positive.

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 Post subject: Re: Scarpa F1 and F3
PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 4:01 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 9:06 pm
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Location: Udapimp, Idaho
Snurfer wrote:
First Impressions of HB riding (Scarpa F3)
Skinning is a whole different world, and a very pleasant world it is....

BTW... Olies and butters in hard boots are awesome, body to board input is direct with no lag at all.

So far I think its pretty awesome. The improvement in touring is phenomenal.
Transitioning is a breeze and shouldering the boards going from the car to the trail without all the bulk and shit (of strap binders) flopping around is priceless. As is getting in and out of the setup in deep snow and on precarious perches. Booting was painless.

Am I convert? Not yet, but the reduction in effort to skin made what would have been a marginal day quite enjoyable. Only time will tell on the riding aspect, but my first impression was positive.


:thumpsup: Love it when the lightbulb goes off.

Did you try any mods yet? With a little work you can get ride mode to feel like a stiff softy setup.
You can get more lateral flex by elongating vertically the cuff cant adjuster hole, (or spring for sidewinders) and thinning the tongue as in Buell's post for more of a softy ride without the floppy buckle & booster.
Laces still have a place,
on a noboard.

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 Post subject: Re: Scarpa F1 and F3
PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 6:55 pm 
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Location: UT
b0ardski wrote:
:thumpsup: Love it when the lightbulb goes off.
Indeed, I have been wanting to try HB's since the days of Damian Sanders throwing huge airs on his 171 in Koflachs...

b0ardski wrote:
Did you try any mods yet? With a little work you can get ride mode to feel like a stiff softy setup.
You can get more lateral flex by elongating vertically the cuff cant adjuster hole, (or spring for sidewinders) and thinning the tongue as in Buell's post for more of a softy ride without the floppy buckle & booster.
No mods yet, I'd like to try and avoid mods until I'm a full convert. The mod to the cuff pivot sounds promising, but looking at the connection inside the boot its really difficult to see how to dismantle it :scratch:
As for the tongue I'd prefer to simply remove it (e.g. Stephen Koch), or replace it rather than take a grinder to it. In any event, the experience was positive, so I'm sure mods will naturally follow. Thanks for chiming in with suggestions.

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 Post subject: Re: Scarpa F1 and F3
PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 11:34 pm 
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Location: Eugene and Coos Bay, Oregon.
Hey Snurfer,

Sounds like a good start and you were on the snow in October.

The toeside issues were from too stiff of a forward flex to let your legs (and by extension the rest of your body) get into a proper riding position. Loosening the buckles helps, but I think it is best when the upper cuff flexes with your leg instead of your leg moving inside of the too stiff upper cuff. Even with mods, I will still fine tune with buckle tightness though.

It is so nice not to have the bulk of softboots. Dynafit will add a lot to your skinning, especially when the oF3 bellows are allowed to flex. I usually skin with the upper buckle undone except on tougher sidehilling.

You cannot undo the pivot point on the F3. There is no cant adjuster.

Did you try riding with the boots in walk mode?


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 Post subject: Re: Scarpa F1 and F3
PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 8:40 am 
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Location: UT
buell wrote:
Hey Snurfer,

Sounds like a good start and you were on the snow in October.

The toeside issues were from too stiff of a forward flex to let your legs (and by extension the rest of your body) get into a proper riding position. Loosening the buckles helps, but I think it is best when the upper cuff flexes with your leg instead of your leg moving inside of the too stiff upper cuff. Even with mods, I will still fine tune with buckle tightness though.

It is so nice not to have the bulk of softboots. Dynafit will add a lot to your skinning, especially when the oF3 bellows are allowed to flex. I usually skin with the upper buckle undone except on tougher sidehilling.

You cannot undo the pivot point on the F3. There is no cant adjuster.

Did you try riding with the boots in walk mode?
That makes sense with the toe side issues I was having and I could tell that other aspects of the ride were sacrificed by having the top buckle unlatched. I might go up today and try walk mode while riding. Unfortunately after today it looks like its back to no snow for a awhile. :nononno:

Oh well the snow has been good while it lasted and we have been fortunate to have some. I know others are still waiting and I hope everyone gets some soon.

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 Post subject: Re: Scarpa F1 and F3
PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 10:23 am 
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Snurfer: Buell is right on with his suggestions. Slot the forward lean mech, this will allow for forward flex while retaining the necessary rearward support for good heelside response. I agree that it is better to soften the flex of the boot some with mods, rather than ride with the floppy feel of a really loose cuff.

If you think tour mode is great now, try Dynafit toe pieces-these allow for a huge increase in touring performance.

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