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 Post subject: what's your hardboot stance&style?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 9:08 am 
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Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2007 11:18 pm
Posts: 939
Location: reiter hills
what's your angle and your riding style?

What has worked for you?

I converted from soft boots earlier this year and am having some trouble getting everything 'dialed'. I started out trying to use the same duckfooted stance and riding style. It worked, but I end up looking like I put in way too many years on horse back due to the way the boots force my knees to do so.. I then turned to a semi aggressive forward stance, but still have the body positioning as before.No hands to the front, shoulders square with the bottum of the hill.

I'd like to keep my soft boot style. IS that possible?

my biggest problem is firm and challenging conditions on my heel side. Should I put my boots in ski mode for more heelside response? It all looks and feels fine in pow.

I have been using lowa structura lights. The have a hinged tounge, and in walk mode, more for and aft flex then soft boots. I took off the top strap... maybe they flex too far back?

walk mode for pow, ski mode for when you want a serious edge?

I should have taken more time to get this dialed when the lifts where still turning?

any info or thoughts appreciated!


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 Post subject: Re: what's your hardboot stance&style?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 8:21 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 10:05 am
Posts: 1538
Location: Colorado
Stance: 27-30 degrees F, 12-15 degrees R, 21" width, same stance with soft boots.

I always ride with forward lean, but I mod my boots to allow for soft forward flex when the lean is locked in. One needs forward lean for good heelside response, on any kind of snow (as well as knee protection).

Style? I would find it hard to accurately describe this; style is a personal thing. I ride pow, and seek out steeps, and technical steeps when they are safe, including snowboard mountaineering in big mountains.

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 Post subject: Re: what's your hardboot stance&style?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 10:20 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2008 7:38 pm
Posts: 400
Location: Eugene and Coos Bay, Oregon.
I have mostly the same style as in softboots, but the softboots do have a bit more even flex in all directions. The AT boots (I am always working on the mods) will always have some directions that they are stiffer than softboots, even if you can get the forward flex to be the same.

My splitboard angles are 20 to 30 F and 15 to 25 R. I ride with my shoulders perpendicular to my angles (feet) so there is no twisting in my body.

Ski mode will likely be too stiff and walk mode will have no heel side. Walk mode in powder seems to work fine, but on corn (especially firm) and steep it becomes a significant issue. I think the best solution is the one Barrows made to his Dynafits. The walk/ski mechanism is likely a bar that has a couple of holes drilled into it. A pin goes into one of the two holes when you place your boots in ski mode. You will need to modify the bar by making a slot that gives you plenty of forward flex (it would be acting like walk mode, but have a limited range) but has a stop that acts like a high back on your heel side (I can try to explain better if you need).

The stiffness of the boots in walk mode will be determined by the tongue stiffness and shape. You can modify the tongue or get a stiffer tongue to adjust the forward / rear stiffness of the boot. You said yours are already really soft in walk mode. Trying to find a stiffer tongue that fits your boots will stiffen them up if you need.


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 Post subject: Re: what's your hardboot stance&style?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 8:40 am 
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Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2007 11:18 pm
Posts: 939
Location: reiter hills
Thanks for the tips guys. both here and what you said in the general. All makes perfect sense. I'll try and find the walk bar mod, but I def get what you are saying. I also have stiffer toungues to experiment with.

Note* I really love the way I can do toe side turns now. I'd hate to lose much of that. And in line with what buell said, I've never had a problem with the heel side until recently when things got firm. but come to think of it, my heel side has always been shit.

Maybe style was the wrong word. Barrows interpetation of the meaning style is more correct in the climbing sense. Sometimes dictated by the local culture as to what is stylish? Like climbing what you ride is more stylish then taking the easy way up and dropping blind? So, it's not just a safety issue, it's stylish. In teh end, teh way you choose to do is 'your style'

I'm digging your style Barrows.


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 Post subject: Re: what's your hardboot stance&style?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 9:00 am 
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Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2007 11:18 pm
Posts: 939
Location: reiter hills
buell wrote:
The stiffness of the boots in walk mode will be determined by the tongue stiffness and shape. You can modify the tongue or get a stiffer tongue to adjust the forward / rear stiffness of the boot. You said yours are already really soft in walk mode. Trying to find a stiffer tongue that fits your boots will stiffen them up if you need.


I tried the stiffer tongues this weekened... do not like.

They did make my healside much more effective, but I don't want to sacrifce what it took away from the toe side. it was darn near perfect(the feeling, not my turns). I don't really like leaving my top buckle loose either.

I tried to scope out where to do the drilling of the walk mode bar and couldn't see how it would work. it did get me to thinkering..

what if I put a compression coil around the walk bar?

or just a piece of foam rubber stopper?

Or maybe I'll just call it a year and go swimming or something.


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 Post subject: Re: what's your hardboot stance&style?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 1:27 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2004 1:08 pm
Posts: 378
Location: near munich
i ride sooftboot and hardboot the same stand and the same angel - only canting 3- 5 ° at HBB.


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 Post subject: Re: what's your hardboot stance&style?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 6:54 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2008 7:38 pm
Posts: 400
Location: Eugene and Coos Bay, Oregon.
ale_capone wrote:
I tried the stiffer tongues this weekened... do not like.

They did make my healside much more effective, but I don't want to sacrifce what it took away from the toe side. it was darn near perfect(the feeling, not my turns). I don't really like leaving my top buckle loose either.


A small change in stiffness (like different tongues) can make a pretty big difference in how the boots feel.

ale_capone wrote:
I tried to scope out where to do the drilling of the walk mode bar and couldn't see how it would work. it did get me to thinkering..

what if I put a compression coil around the walk bar?

or just a piece of foam rubber stopper?


I do not know your boots. On both the Dynafit Zzeros and the Scarpa F3s I put the boot in walk mode and pulled the upper cuff as far back as possible. That exposed the holes in the bar that are used to lock the forward lean of the boot for ski mode.

Rebecca was testing her Zzeros for alpine carving as well and we were waiting to do the mod to the bar. I thought quite a bit about something to clamp / screw onto the bar to let her have a heelside stop. The issue is that it has to be quickly removable for skinning and be quick to install for riding. Another issue is that, if you load it up on a heelside and it fails, I think you could damage your ankle because it will suddenly be free to move backwards with a lot of force on it.


ale_capone wrote:
Or maybe I'll just call it a year and go swimming or something.

Not possible. You have way too much snow such a short distance from you house! :drool:


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 Post subject: Re: what's your hardboot stance&style?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 10:23 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:46 pm
Posts: 44
I run 30 front and back. G-mont MegaRides. Dont want much overhang. for me the steeper angle on the rear foot made initiating turns easier. about the width as soft boot 22.25". Also run some fairly aggressive cant angles kinda like the old aluminum Burton PowerPlates.

Been thinking of doing the same climbing bar mod, seems like it would be the trick. Last couple of years I have been using a completely soft tongue made from nylon webbing. Works great has a nice motion with some resistance.

With 30deg angles, the heel side edge is more of a lateral force and do not notice the lack of heel side support that much, but do agree that on firm stuff it would be nice to have some extra support. I only run it on the back foot, kinda like having the plastic tongue on the front. heres a pic of my MOD Image

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 Post subject: Re: what's your hardboot stance&style?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 9:31 am 
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Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 9:06 pm
Posts: 221
Location: Udapimp, Idaho
I ride all my boards including powder boards with a hardboot style, i.e. hands an shoulders facing the nose of the board and angles around 25/38 for pow.
With hard boots at lower angles, 3* of inward canting with shims will get you out of cowboy gorilla mode and bring the knees into a more natural/comfortable position. If your plate bindings didn't come with cant shims you can make some out of a plastic cutting board from walmart. cut a wedge of the cutting board on a table saw set at 3*-4*, or buy plastic door shims at home depot and mount under the toe & heel block of the binders.

Boot mods. I like the soft tongue on the back foot idea and the forward lean bar mods. I use old nordica SBH boots for touring, It's basically an AT boot with some alterations for boarding, lowered tongue, limited rearward travel in walk mode and my favorite, lateral flex mode in the cuff hinge.
Image
lateral flex mod can be made to any ski/AT boots like you do a hinge rivet repair. drill out the hinge rivet. carefully widen the hole vertically into a slot with a round file or dremel tool, don't go too far, you can always lengthen the travel by slotting the cuff hole in addition to the boot base slot after a test ride. replace the rivet withn an equal size short panhead bolt/t-nut and flat washers. pics from bomberonline.com
Image
Image

don't over tighten to allow travel and use threadloc. instead of a tnut & loctite, you can use a panhead screw and washer from the inside with a locknutand washer on the outside.
Here's a good boot mod thread from bomber.
http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=6008&highlight=head+tuning

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