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 Post subject: Re: Voile (Manufacturer) Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:38 pm 
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I want stiffer, stronger pucks. I suspect that this could be (relatively) easy to accomplish with existing molds (I have worked in manufacturing and understand tooling costs). Long fiber carbon reinforced resin should do the trick.

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 Post subject: Re: Voile (Manufacturer) Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 2:45 pm 
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rughty wrote:
I totally agree that the light rail isn't an advancement in any way. It was a great business decision to take market share from Sparks in their inability to support the demand from the end user. My mod is only a poor man's fix to keep my hard earned $$$ in my pocket and a statement to any manufacturer who stalls the advancement of our sport in favor of sitting on a patent only to suck every last dollar from us before introducing a new product so they can do it all over again. Screw big business. They have been doing it to us for years!!! Go Karakorum!!!



rughty grow up. voile employees between 10-15 people at most per year and is anything from big business. it is run by three ski bums that try to make good gear using local resources. this sport wouldn't be here without voile and Wally's willingness to take a risk on Cowboys idea.(if you don't know who these people are, then you shouldn't be talking shit in the first place.) When i worked there my time was spent doing everything from handling retail accounts, taking customer calls, putting stickers on shovel handles and package screws and pucks to send to venture, burton, prior, neversummer etc.. the point is voile does a lot with very little. if handcrafting skis and splitboards out of garage is big business, or if Dave, Mark, Matt and whoever else may be there now working 50+ hours a week to make sure all the customer service, ordering issues, parts issues, production issues are taken care of is big business, then voile is guilty i guess.

as far as spark r and d goes it is a great company but i hardly think the lightrail is stealing anything from Will. Spark couldn't even make enough fuse bindings to supply the demand this winter. seems like they are doing fine to me. Sparks continued success is based on the assumption that voile will be the industry standard for years to come. If karakorum takes over the world like you are campaigning for, will they allow Spark to infringe on their patent and build bindings compatible with the karakorum system?


if you and russman(and yes i'm lumping you two together because of recent postings from both of you) are representative of karakorums attitude toward the rest of the splitboarding industry, then i want nothing to do with them. which is a shame because it looks like those dudes have worked their asses off to make a good product.

the end.

sorry for the thread drift but i can't let uneducated comments like that slide.
and ps-
i don't work for voile anymore and i don't think voile is the greatest thing ever, in fact there is tons a shit they could improve on. some of the ideas are mentioned here. so lets keep this thread fairly constructive and keep giving ideas to voile instead of making inaccurate generalizations.

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 Post subject: Re: Voile (Manufacturer) Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 2:51 pm 
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barrows wrote:
I want stiffer, stronger pucks. I suspect that this could be (relatively) easy to accomplish with existing molds (I have worked in manufacturing and understand tooling costs). Long fiber carbon reinforced resin should do the trick.



there has been a few people requesting stiffer/stronger pucks maybe it's because i'm a little guy but i haven't found the pucks to be too soft. Maybe i just don't know what to look for, when do you guys experience the pucks having too much flex? have you guys ever broken/cracked a puck?

I agree with snurfer that it seems like the pucks in general could be shaved down resulting in a lower fit, but then i guess that would mean that voile and spark would have to change their machining processes in making plates, and bindings.

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 Post subject: Re: Voile (Manufacturer) Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 9:11 pm 
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I broke the pucks on my front foot in half (universals), but the forces involved were pretty high (I missjudged a compression in flat light) and this failure may have prevented an ankle injury.
In any case, mostly what I am looking for is stiffer pucks for better board response. Try this: set your board on the floor and attach your boots to the bindings. Then torque on the boots and watching the pucks flex away from the board-a stiffer puck would allow for better response and more precise control. The DIY pucks perform better in stiffness, because they are screwed down to the board at more points.
I have been putting one ski screw through the outside corner of the universal pucks into the board (only do this when your stance is dialed) and this helps the board response a lot, but carbon fiber is the obvious solution to better universal pucks.

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http://protectourwinters.org/
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 Post subject: Re: Voile (Manufacturer) Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 8:50 am 
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A little background so people know where I am coming from. I work for a semiconductor company in their research and development department. It is my job to establish new technology to get new and better products to our customers which in turn advances our company over the competitors. I have been in the industry for about 15 years and in R&D for the past 6. Product innovation is not new to me. If Voile doesn't advance their technology, they will become a second rate company and fall to the "Karakorums" in the splitboard industry. I have seen this happen to many companies over the years. I think that any company who has made great contributions to the splitboard industry are invaluable, but they must continue to grow with the times or they will be quickly outdated.

I agree that the light rail wasn't "stolen" from Sparks. It simply is similar technology and was/is a short term answer for Sparks inability to keep up with production. Very smart business decision which is keeping Voile in the game due to a shortfall on Sparks behalf. Growing a business is a very difficult feat. If you grow too slowly, you will be overtaken by companies who have the capital to support faster growth. If you grow too quickly, then you lose market share and customer satisfaction drops off due to the inability of keeping up with the demand. People will go to a company who can supply them with the products they desire. That being said, customer loyalty is pretty much the only thing which goes against this, but in the end is only a small part of the percentage.

I am not representative of Karakorums attitude. I have only spoken to them a few minutes here and there. I am interested to see how they do in this industry because they represent the splitboard industry in new product growth and innovation. They are risking (just as Voile and Sparks has done) quite a bit and have invested their blood, sweat and tears in providing us, the customer, with an alternative and possibly better product to go have fun on. I would love to see Karakorum do well in this industry and challenge any other company to come up with something better to answer their product.

Voile and Sparks may not be corporate giants, but they are the biggest fish in the sea when it comes to splitboard products. They have the advantage in that they have years of experience and knowledge of the industry and what the end user is looking for.

Isn't this why this thread was started???

And I am sure that Sparks isn't infringing on Voile's patent. I am sure that Sparks pays Voile to use their patent as most companies do.

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 Post subject: Re: Voile (Manufacturer) Thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 5:23 pm 
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Location: Nor-Nev...Whoop Whoop...
:disco: Asked the person helping with my order about the swally, and got nothin.... Come on guys, perhaps a custom order basis? :cry:

I agree Snurfer...Keep on buggin..MAS SWALLYYYY POR FAVOR.....

And, I ve broken pucks as well... Not that it matters much , but this thread will help someone see what we are interested. To think there isn t even snow on the ground yet....Snow flies soon I suppose as summer slowly drifts south again...

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 Post subject: Re: Voile (Manufacturer) Thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 5:25 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:54 pm
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Location: Nor-Nev...Whoop Whoop...
:disco: Asked the person helping with my order about the swally, and got nothin.... Come on guys, perhaps a custom order basis? :cry:

I agree Snurfer...Keep on buggin..MAS SWALLYYYY POR FAVOR.....

And, I ve broken pucks as well... Not that it matters much , but this thread will help someone see what we are interested. To think there isn t even snow on the ground yet....Snow flies soon I suppose as summer slowly drifts south again...

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165 Venture Storm, 171 MrMojoRisin, 178 ST Voile Dynafit TP,
182 Voile Surf de Neige,195 ST Voile
Scarpa F-1s

Deep snow and surfin the blue blue, I dream.


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 Post subject: Re: Voile (Manufacturer) Thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 5:45 pm 
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Yeah I've given up on Voile to bring back the swally.... Bugging them seems silly, since they have seen this thread and have not bothered to comment one way, or the other (on this, or any other request).... :banghead:
This is why I don't get all bromantic about certain other companies. Riders pitch their wares for them on this forum and yet not a peep from most of them. :bow:
Meanwhile, props to Karakoram and Spark for actually engaging with us about their products.... Anyways I could go on, but all that will do is get people all mad at me and stuff

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 Post subject: Re: Voile (Manufacturer) Thread
PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 1:57 pm 
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No question about it Voile is a great company, particularly in the area of custom service. That being said, you have to remember that Voile is a ski company run and owned by skiers--it is not a snowboard company. I for one am really excited to see some competition for Voile in terms of other snowboard specific companies getting into the split game. I think it is a game changer and will really spur new innovation and development which, for me, has seemed at a stand-still for many years now. What I would like to see is for Voile to resurrect their idea of manufacturing a step-in boot/binding system for the splitboard. Such a system could literally reduce weight in terms of pounds not to mention it is far more convenient than the current system. If done correctly, for many of us, strap bindings in the backcounty would be a thing of the past.


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 Post subject: Re: Voile (Manufacturer) Thread
PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 2:19 pm 
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I tried a variety of bindings this past season on my splitty including flow, step ins and strap bindings.

Flow bindings sucked in the BC.

I loved the ease of the step ins and they allowed me to get on my board super fast when conditions were less than perfect. The downside to my setup though was that the boots were heavy, bulky and sat further off the deck than all other setups. That being said, they were older vans step ins so I am not familiar with what other step ins would even be suitable. I do like the idea of step ins though. With a stiffer boot, front pointing crampons would be a little more comfortable too.

Very little weight with the strap ins these days and boots are getting lighter.

It would be totally sic if Karakoram got together with a boot manufacturer and put their technology in a boot sole. :doobie:

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 Post subject: Re: Voile (Manufacturer) Thread
PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 2:38 pm 
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I ride a K2 Clicker binding where the actual step-in mechanisms are mounted directly to the slider tract. Super light system and rides like a dream. The only problem is that the K2 boots I use are really outdated and heavy by today’s standards. If K2 was still making a step-in system with today's boot technology it would be a no-brainer. Nothing could even come close in terms of weight savings since the binding is integrated into the boot.


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 Post subject: Re: Voile (Manufacturer) Thread
PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 9:41 pm 
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For the serious swallowtail (splitboard) crowd there might be good news. With fund raisers and movie premieres happening this week, I've had the good fortune to hang out with some good folks and have good discussions. One of the topics has been bringing back the swally! :clap:

So.... those who are seriously interested let me know by PM and include the size 178/195. I will try and represent us a group as best I can and keep you informed. I'm looking for folks that are truly serious about buying a swally. If the numbers are there and the stars align, I think this will happen. It also couldn't hurt to drop Voile a personal email letting them know you are serious about bringing back this classic ride.

If this actually does happen (and it sounds as though it can), it will be driven by interest. As near as I can tell, it may be a build to order product, but it will still require committed rider interest to make it happen.

I'm cautiously optimistoked :thumpsup:

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 Post subject: Re: Voile (Manufacturer) Thread
PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 2:14 pm 
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wasatch surf wrote:
rughty wrote:
I totally agree that the light rail isn't an advancement in any way. It was a great business decision to take market share from Sparks in their inability to support the demand from the end user. My mod is only a poor man's fix to keep my hard earned $$$ in my pocket and a statement to any manufacturer who stalls the advancement of our sport in favor of sitting on a patent only to suck every last dollar from us before introducing a new product so they can do it all over again. Screw big business. They have been doing it to us for years!!! Go Karakorum!!!



rughty grow up. voile employees between 10-15 people at most per year and is anything from big business. it is run by three ski bums that try to make good gear using local resources. this sport wouldn't be here without voile and Wally's willingness to take a risk on Cowboys idea.(if you don't know who these people are, then you shouldn't be talking shit in the first place.) When i worked there my time was spent doing everything from handling retail accounts, taking customer calls, putting stickers on shovel handles and package screws and pucks to send to venture, burton, prior, neversummer etc.. the point is voile does a lot with very little. if handcrafting skis and splitboards out of garage is big business, or if Dave, Mark, Matt and whoever else may be there now working 50+ hours a week to make sure all the customer service, ordering issues, parts issues, production issues are taken care of is big business, then voile is guilty i guess.

as far as spark r and d goes it is a great company but i hardly think the lightrail is stealing anything from Will. Spark couldn't even make enough fuse bindings to supply the demand this winter. seems like they are doing fine to me. Sparks continued success is based on the assumption that voile will be the industry standard for years to come. If karakorum takes over the world like you are campaigning for, will they allow Spark to infringe on their patent and build bindings compatible with the karakorum system?


if you and russman(and yes i'm lumping you two together because of recent postings from both of you) are representative of karakorums attitude toward the rest of the splitboarding industry, then i want nothing to do with them. which is a shame because it looks like those dudes have worked their asses off to make a good product.

the end.

sorry for the thread drift but i can't let uneducated comments like that slide.
and ps-
i don't work for voile anymore and i don't think voile is the greatest thing ever, in fact there is tons a shit they could improve on. some of the ideas are mentioned here. so lets keep this thread fairly constructive and keep giving ideas to voile instead of making inaccurate generalizations.


I think the one who needs to grow up here is you, Wasatch.

Absolutely no need to attack Rughty. Cut out the hating dude!

What is up with you guys defending Voile so much? I mean seriously.. Sure they have supported splitting when nobody else has, but the bottom line is that there simply hasn't been any true innovation for years. Isn't it about time that new options were available for splitters? Particularly one's that raise the bar for performance?

Sheesh.... You'd think you guys would be stoked! Isn't stoke what its all about, anyway?

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