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 Post subject: Boots that don't give you a hernia removing the liner?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 12:29 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:42 am
Posts: 529
Location: Oakland, CA
I'm looking for these three things in a generally kickass softboot:

i) Stiff lower, midstiff upper. I don't need a cement casing - and have found the Solly F24s as a good balance of stiffness.

ii) Good outsole for hiking. Come May/June/July/August we still have great riding here in CA but a lot of it requires some scrambling and trailwalking. I don't like to double up with boots until it's bloody hot out. Something that works semi-okay for kicking steps is nice too.

iii) I can remove the liners without hassle. It's one thing to remove a liner from a softboot from the comfort of your living room - it's an entirely different thing to do so when the sun has just set and it's 15F out and dropping and all that wet snow you've kicked around at camp is starting to freeze on your softboot.

(i) and (ii) above aren't that hard to find. Almost everyone here likes a stiff boot that can hike.

My newfound problem is (iii). I've recently been trying this whole snow camping thing and I find a big problem is being able to get my liners out of my boot and into my sleeping bag. The first time I went snow camping it was so physically challenging to remove the liners from my Solly F24s that I just kept the boots in the tent vestibule overnight and it worked out okay because it was warm and bluebird the next morning and we camped in an east facing area that allowed me to heat up my boots a bit before freezing my feet into them. The second time was a much bigger problem - I basically didn't even try to futz with my liners and the soft outer fabric had basically absorbed the water from the snow and was a giant chunk of ice/snow. The next morning the boots were so stiff I could not even physically contort my feet into them. When I finally got them in my feet went numb and I couldn't tell how tight my laces were on the skin up for the first lap of the day. I ended up having my laces too tight and cut off too much circulation to ever rewarm my toes ... big problem.

Anyways, I'll be much more vigilant about this on my next trip ... but seriously I cannot get my liners out of my boots for the life of me. There has to be a good softboot that meets all three criteria above.

Comments, criticism, advice, jokes?


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 Post subject: Re: Boots that don't give you a hernia removing the liner?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 4:37 pm 
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The problems you note are all overcome with a good pair of hardboots, like modded Dynafit Zzero 3s-a good hardboot set up will also be more efficient skinning, lighter, and better riding (if properly modded, believe it) than any soft boot.

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 Post subject: Re: Boots that don't give you a hernia removing the liner?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 5:25 pm 
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Location: Oakland, CA
yes yes, I know all my problems would go away in that case.

However I still do a lot of resort riding and am not looking for a major system overhaul! I also being able to hike a 2 mile dirt approach in softboots, which I know is possible in hardboots but doesn't seem like very much fun at all.


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 Post subject: Re: Boots that don't give you a hernia removing the liner?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 9:56 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 8:56 pm
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Location: Meyers, CA
I cut the ankle holder thing out of my Solomon Malamutes. The liner is much easier to remove and replace. Honestly they fit just as well as before.

I've snowcamped in AT boots and they are warm and the liners are a breeze, but then you've got hard boots on...


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 Post subject: Re: Boots that don't give you a hernia removing the liner?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 3:00 pm 
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Location: white room
Northwave Decade

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 Post subject: Re: Boots that don't give you a hernia removing the liner?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:00 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:51 am
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Location: Mormon HQ.... AKA SLC
The liners don't come out of the Salomon F-Boots... The F stands for Fusion as the liner is fused at the toe box and there is no traditional liner in the toe box at all...

I rode Salomon boots for 10 years and loved them, but these days I'm in love with my DC Judge's... Great fit, the kind of flex you're looking for and Dual Boa.... No fucking up your hands when it super cold out and you need to tighten or loosen up your boots.... Just turn or pull the dial with gloves or mittens on! The liners come out and go back in pretty darn easy too....

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 Post subject: Re: Boots that don't give you a hernia removing the liner?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:12 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:42 am
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Location: Oakland, CA
Thanks for that insight, I was wondering why the f I was not able to get those things out ... that's a MAJOR disadvantage for snowcamping.

I'll see if I can take a look at the DC Judge and Northwave Decade ... have never worn boots by either company so not sure about fit and durability. Remember, I like to hike me some scree to get to snow and don't like bringing hiking boots along.


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 Post subject: Re: Boots that don't give you a hernia removing the liner?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:36 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:51 am
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Location: Mormon HQ.... AKA SLC
FWIW.... Although I am sure many people love their Northwave boots... I would not buy them... I was in the industry for many years and kinda still am and Norhtwave and their parent company has had many, many, many problems over the last 8-9 years... At one point they were very close to ceasing to exist, and had problems with never shipping orders and having boots show up new in the box, but falling apart... (back in the day, like pre 2001 they were some of the best boots though)

I was a boot fitter and that was my specialty... My best advice is go to a local specialty store ( NO BOX STORES! ) that carries all the major brands and get their best boot fitter to run you through all their boots... Nobody can make the perfect boot that fits everyone... And even then your perfect boot may still take some personalized tweaking by a good boot fitter to be completely tits... When you go into a store tell the person that your feet "pronate".... Don't worry what it means or even if you feet do "pronate" if the boot fitter knows what "pronate" is you've probably found your guy.... If they say "Huh?" or scratch their head move on to someone who knows what that term is and how to fix it....

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 Post subject: Re: Boots that don't give you a hernia removing the liner?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 6:20 pm 
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Location: Ithaca, NY
SchralphMacchio wrote:
Thanks for that insight, I was wondering why the f I was not able to get those things out ... that's a MAJOR disadvantage for snowcamping.


Hey Shcralph, what's up man?

Definitely can't snow camp comfortably without removing those liners! Even in the Sierra! Sorry to hear about your foot freezing experience.

If you're going out to do any overnights lemme know! I love winter camping but am still working to get an overnight tour done with some actual turns in!

Did most of Glacier point road though in Yosemite last year! I do not recommend a splitboard for this though!!!! The path is just too flat for skins but yet too steep at times with just regular non-patterned bases. Should've just bootpacked on that effin' highway of a path. They groom it for the skate skiers. My ignorance was quickly erased and it was a fun trip anyway!
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 Post subject: Re: Boots that don't give you a hernia removing the liner?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:49 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 11:36 pm
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+1 Malamutes


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 Post subject: Re: Boots that don't give you a hernia removing the liner?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 8:30 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 8:56 pm
Posts: 470
Location: Meyers, CA
If you're sold on nonremovable liners then you can always rock vapor barrier socks to keep them from wetting out from the inside. It's not my personal preference, but this technique does work.


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 Post subject: Re: Boots that don't give you a hernia removing the liner?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 8:44 pm 
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Location: Oakland, CA
pow_hnd wrote:
I rode Salomon boots for 10 years and loved them, but these days I'm in love with my DC Judge's... Great fit, the kind of flex you're looking for and Dual Boa.... No fucking up your hands when it super cold out and you need to tighten or loosen up your boots.... Just turn or pull the dial with gloves or mittens on! The liners come out and go back in pretty darn easy too....


So I went to the local board shop today that had 35% off on boots ... and walked out with the DC Judges for $190 after taxes (hey it's California). REALLY liked the outsole for hiking, looked way better than the Malamute - good firm tread blocks with deep troughs for spring hiking on rock/snow/scree. Plus the liner was much easier to re-insert than on the Malamute. The dual BOA looks great for quick adjustments of boot tension for skinning/hiking/cramponing/boarding, so I'm pretty stoked!

Thanks again for the advice powhound!


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 Post subject: Re: Boots that don't give you a hernia removing the liner?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 6:28 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:51 am
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Location: Mormon HQ.... AKA SLC
SchralphMacchio wrote:

Thanks again for the advice powhound!



No problem Schralph... DON'T lose that BOA tool that comes with your boots... Usually once or maybe twice a season you will probably need to take the BOA dial apart and give the cables a fresh wind or you may find that they don't completely loosen up... It's a really straight forward procedure that takes like 5 mins per BOA... Hope you enjoy those boots as much as I do... If you need any boot fitting advice please feel free to PM me... I could easily help you get them dialed if you need help...

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