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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 4:28 pm 
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I don't agree that carrying a board is such an issue, in fact I think it's better to have the weight on your back than feet (isn't there some old mountaineering saying that 1kg on your feet is like 5kg on your back????).


Yeah, but you're not really lifting all of the weight of a splitboard when you're skinning.

Anyone can probably find pages of this type of discussion on Couloir forum. :wink:


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 5:19 pm 
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Location: idaho
the weight off my back is a big deal!! if it takes me 30 seconds more due to being on a split, it was still a much higher "quality" walk. i race bikes in the summers and its all about weight, but if its not race day, i am not riding my race bike. everyday bike is 10+ lbs over racey thing
quality vs. quantity------- does the cash in your wallet make you rich or the smiles on your face?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 6:41 pm 
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Posts: 33
WOW! yall need to chill out or go get some pow. I just got some on my SOLID board, and i feel great.

Sounds to me like Psychomac was saying different tools for different terrain, you shouldnt bash him for being honest and realistic. I couldnt agree with him more. I ride alpine, randonee, snowboards, split, slowshoes, nordic, snowmachines - everything but TELE!!! its just about having fun in the snow, and choosing the right gear for the snow, terrain, route, and sometimes even the group might dictate whats best.

shoot, my dog postholes everywhere she goes, poops in the skin track, gets uphill faster than anyone in any conditions, and still seems to have the most fun out there.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 1:12 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 8:51 am
Posts: 12
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
I guess i'll chime in from a "euro" perspective...only been here 7 years so it's only from my limited perspective. I experienced a similar thing when i arrived here with tele skis. almost no one to be seen on tele. and if so only in resorts, never touring. then i switched to snowboarding. it was also quite rare to see people touring with boards. now it's really picking up and as many havce noted, splits are not abundant...yet. Besides the terrain and access being completely different, i think attitude is also an important factor. people have been touring here for a LONG time. it's part of the culture. i think this makes them slower to change or to try out unproven new gear. obviously as many pointed out, splits have proven worthy for the die hard splitters and i think they'll be seen more and more in the alps. another interesting observation. the age of the ski tourers here is much higher than in the states. not sure if that has anything to do with it. i do know the swiss are pretty set in their ways...

as far as terrain, elevation has very little to do with it. i've lived in tahoe and washington state, grew up in new england, skied all those places +BC, CO...check out this site http://www.philingle.com that will give you a sense of what the terrain and lines can be like here. you just dont get that in the sierras or CO rockies or the the cascades...if you do, you sure can't take a lift to access it. and thats another biggie, so much of the alps are accessable by lift.

i'm off to do the haute route (part of it) and i really wanted to take my snowboard. i even went to voile-suisse and checked out a split. but as bruce mentioned and from my memory of the route, a split wouldn't be the best tool...if i were going with a bunch of splitters i'd try it. on that note have you all seen this site? http://hauteroute.moonfruit.com? to guys tried the HR on splits. (so i'm doing it on skis)

finally, "euro" is actually a currency. quite strong at the moment if you hadn't noticed. i think the correct term is "euro-weenie".


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 7:44 am 
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Location: San Juan Islands, WA
In my opinion a split is much faster and easier than snowshoes or postholing.I was up at Mt. Baker on monday making laps on my split,after 5 laps and my skintrack being destroyed by a snowshoer,I decieded to boot my way up the cat track with the swallowtail.Well it took longer, had to take a longer route (would have to take the cat track with snowshoes also),and was not as much fun with a board on my back.So looks like I'll be looking for anothr 4807 to cut, and letting the snowshoes gather more dust.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 7:56 am 
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Just my little contribution from my little swiss point of view.
I've been touring in the Alps for some years now and I currently own both options discussed here, that is MSR snowshoes and a splitboard. It is obvious that these two options are very different and therefore are adapted to different conditions. In a steep and narrow couloir, especially on hardpack, the snowshoes work far better, no question about this. Especially with MSR's, which have very aggressive crampons making them very effective on icy stuff. Going stright up in narrow couloirs is a great advantage.
On deep pow, long distance, flattish bits like crossing a frozen lake, or just about anything else than steep narrow couloirs or relatively dense forests, the split seems to be superior to snowshoes. This means that a split will be more efficient in a much wider range of conditions than snowshoes.
There is also a question of security. On a glacier, for example, there is no way I would take my snowshoes. The probability of ending up in a crevasse (a crack in the ice or whatever they are called in english) would be multiplied by 2 or more compared with a split.
The final point is probably the most important: who are you going in the BC with? Aroud here, BC snowboarding is still hard to find. More than 90% of the people in the BC are skiers. When I am with other snowboarders, who usually use snowshoes, I also take the snowshoes. When I am with skiers, which is the case most of the time, I use my split. The nearest your gear is to that of the rest of the group, the easier it is.
And anyhow, a split, just kile snowshoes, will always get you up there. The question is, will YOU get yourself up there. Not using the most efficient gear can be tiering, but in the end, as long as you can go uphill, the fact that it isn't the most efficient way to do it is only the second thing on my mind...

As for snowshoeing on a ski trail, I try to avoid it as mich as possible. Sometimes there is no other choice (cliff 10cm to the right, and 10cm to the left). But when you have the choice, respecting skinners is part of the "learing tolerance" way of thinking. You just make a snowshoe trail next to the ski trail, which other snowshoers will be able to take and therefore not wreck the ski trail without being exhausted.
Anyhow, if the skiers had not been the first up, there would be no trail. So you just have to get used to making your own. It's not that bad when taking turns in groups of 3 or more.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 8:20 am 
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Location: Routt County, CO
bot6 wrote:
In a steep and narrow couloir, especially on hardpack, the snowshoes work far better, no question about this.


I just don't see how a snowshoe is superior to a boot crampon in this situation you describe. Nobodys saying the most efficient way to climb steep hard chutes is skinning on a splitboard. Regardless of equipment, most people will be booting in this scenario;including skiers.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 11:15 am 
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Location: California
Champagnepowder wrote:
bot6 wrote:
In a steep and narrow couloir, especially on hardpack, the snowshoes work far better, no question about this.


I just don't see how a snowshoe is superior to a boot crampon in this situation you describe. Nobodys saying the most efficient way to climb steep hard chutes is skinning on a splitboard. Regardless of equipment, most people will be booting in this scenario;including skiers.


Sorry if I added to the confusion here…

I never meant to imply that we skin up steep couloirs….that's where boot crampons and ice axes are used. I'll go out on a limb and say that most any professional mountain guide would probably frown on using snowshoes over boot crampons in a steep, firm couloir. It's just too dangerous and not very wise.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 2:19 pm 
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I have actualy setup my msr's where the crampons detatch more easily from the snowshoe, then I use the shoes like ice axes to pull up the mnt and the crampons work great on steeper pitches. I'm just getting a split going but I can see that it's use will be for more approach and will be alot better than the snowshoes for that. I also telemark and have skinned alot with teles and can definitely say that it takes alot of practice. Point being that snowshoes have their time and place but skinnin has a broader variety of uses. Years ago I was reprimanded for snowshoeing in skin track and after learning to skin on tele's and running across shoe tracks in my bootpacks I can definitely see where the frustration comes from. I can't wait to be able to get farther into the bc faster and be able to snowboard rather than ski simply because snowboards float and perform better in the pow.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 3:19 am 
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champagnepowder wrote:
bot6 wrote:
In a steep and narrow couloir, especially on hardpack, the snowshoes work far better, no question about this.


I just don't see how a snowshoe is superior to a boot crampon in this situation you describe. Nobodys saying the most efficient way to climb steep hard chutes is skinning on a splitboard. Regardless of equipment, most people will be booting in this scenario;including skiers.


Well I'm not saying it works better than a crampon. I'm saying it works better than a split, and I think êverybody here agrees on that.
Depending on the density of the snow and the angle of the couloir, crampons might be the better option. But I don't usually go in conditions sufficiently extreme for me not to be able to get up there with the snowshoes. Then again, it's my personnal choice, and this might change as I get more experience and skill.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 8:54 am 
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bot6 wrote:
this might change as I get more experience and skill.


finally! something we can agree on. :)


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2005 8:32 pm 
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Location: Santa Cruz, CA
My only comment to add to this flame-fest is... Verts rule!! :) (for anything the splitboard can't handle)


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:30 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 3:10 pm
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shoot, my dog postholes everywhere she goes, poops in the skin track, gets uphill faster than anyone in any conditions, and still seems to have the most fun out there.

Don't get me started on this. If it isn't ok to for people to posthole in the skin track (which I think most of us agree on) than why can fido. In fact, I think I'm going to take a squat right in the middle of the skin track next time I'm out.

Anyway, I think most of what is said in this post can be summed up quite easily.

The most efficient way to get up and down a mountain, for purely practical purposes, is AT.

Snowboards are, hands down, the most fun a person could have going down a mountain (crud, crust, mush, or cocaine bliss)

Splitboards suck at traversing steep hard pack, but you can learn to deal with this.

Steep (45+ degrees) icy coulars should be bootpacked with crampons. If you can use snow shoes for this without dying, than more power to you. I know there is no way I could pull this off

Tele skiing doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but then again neither do fixed gear bikes and NAS Car. I'm not quite sure what the advantage is, but I'm sure someone else can contribute to this thought.

Snow shoes and posteholeing (bipedal or quadrapedal) affects skin tracks negatively.

Shit stinks and is hard to get off of skins.

[/quote]


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