Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 8:51 am Posts: 514 Location: summit, CO
I'm about to cut a 169 NS Premier in half and I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions on sealant for the inner edge.Also will a table saw work ok?Oh yeah I got the voile DIY setup . Any other tips will be much appreciated.
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 4:26 pm Posts: 407 Location: S.F. Bay Area
Definitely check the archives here and on the Couloir forums, as there are a few threads on personal experiences with the home splits kits... I'm about to do one myself, so I've been in the "data collection" mode for a little while now with a lot of notes scribbled down.
I used spray on Polyurethane (make sure it's exterior the first time you go to the store - ahhm). From what I had read on various posts it seemed the easiest method. I put on two coats, then used an enamel paint to match the color of my board (I didn't like the look of an exposed wood core). Then gave it another couple of sprays. The thin coats should be good for the flex - i.e. they won't crack, I'm not sure if epoxy would be this flexible.
Main thing to keep in mind is this takes time - 1 day per coat. For the post on my personal experience with a homemade split check the link below:
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2004 8:18 pm Posts: 270 Location: Bishop, Ca
Any sort of wood sealant will work on those edges. You'll have to periodically reapply it to the exposed inner core, especially in the spring when the hardpacked snow acts like sandpaper with each step. I also added a bit of sealant to the bits of exposed wood on each of the t-bolt/screw holes, since water can find it's way into almost anything.
Set each wood screw with a little bit of epoxy (similar to mounting skis). Again, this will help keep water away from the core of your board.
Here a few modifications I have made. Just a few things to consider:
On the last board I made I eliminated one t-bolt on each of the touring brackets, and it seems to be doing just fine without it. Instead of attaching each bracket with three t-bolts, I used one of the wood screws instead (in the top hole). Looks like this:
You won't really need all those wood screws anyway.
If possible, try to line up some of the puck template with the existing insert holes. This is easier to do with 4 hole patterns, but is still sometimes possible with the Burton hole pattern. If you can make use of the existing inserts, it will add a bit of strength and security to the binding attachment. But, you really need to make sure those pucks line up EXACTLY! Otherwise you will struggle to get the bindings on and off each time you switch over your board.
The kit suggests attaching each puck with wood screws, but I don't trust that. I know, that is how ski bindings are attached. But I've seen ski bindings pull out of skis before. And skis are designed to hold screws, snowboards are not. Why, just last week I ran into a guy in the backcountry with a torn-out tele-binding. It ripped out of his ski while SKINNING towards Red Slate Mountain. If the binding had pulled out on the descent of that mountain, he would probably be dead. That's not too cool.
So, to add a little security I made use of some of the inserts, and supplemented t-bolts as needed. Yeah, you'll end up with a few more t-bolts in the bottom of your board, but at least the bindings won't pull out.
This is how 3 of the 4 pucks are attached to my current board:
For each of the pucks like this I only had to drill 1 t-bolt.
Be sure to mount the touring brackets a little forward of the balance point (just like the instructions say). On an old board I mounted them back a little bit thinking Ã¢â‚¬Å“More nose equals more float, right?Ã¢â‚¬Â
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2004 11:31 am Posts: 220 Location: ak
bcd nailed this one! Nice post. I like many of the things detailed plus a couple more:
The latest sealant I used is my favorite. Danish oil. Follow the directions on the can. This oil I use on my hardwood floors and board because it actually penetrates the wood and changes the structure to a harder, more durable surface. Periodic reapplication required.
Getting an insert is good, because the pucks can rip out. After two years abuse, my front toeside puck ripped out the inner two screws on a hard ice turn in the woods. Now it's on an insert and in addition I bored the bottom of the puck holes deeper to get more core penetration for the screws. If you do this, measure and drill carefully. If you bore too deeply into the puck, your base will bulge with a screw. Oops, 5 outta 6 ain't bad
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 3:45 am Posts: 123 Location: San Juan Islands, WA
I used West Systems thin penatrating epoxy(several coats),then several coats of the thicker epoxy.It's used in the boat building trade and remains quite flexable after curing.the thin epoxy also works great for repairing boards, it works its way into all the voids and hasn't failed yet.
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 8:41 pm Posts: 1603 Location: Santa Cruz, CA
To expand a bit on some of bcd's points and add some more:
- On my split fish, I used only wood screws/epoxy for the touring brackets. Time will tell if this is strong enough, but I couldn't get myself to stick those huge t-bolts on the bottom. So far it is working fine. Though I do carry some instant epoxy with me on trips... Before doing this I called Voile, and the person I talked to seemed to think that wood screws ought to work. I used #12 x 5/8" wood screws, and had to grind them down so that they would only go down to the top of the p-tex layer. I measured the depth and drilled the holes with a drill press using a 5/32" bit. Started the screws using one of the un-ground screws. Used epoxy in the holes. This method seems to work great!
- For lining up the pucks, you can take two straightedge pieces of wood, and use clamps to clamp them to the sides of the slider pucks. That way you know they are straight, then you just line up the holes with the hole pattern. Keep the whole contraption together until after you've put the screws in - the pucks can move when you put the screws in.
- Wear gloves when making the cut. Mask, glasses, and protective clothing are a good idea too. Bits of fiberglass will fly when cutting. I noticed them later on my hands and arms. Felt like little invisible splinters.
- If you have a wraparound edge, score the edges at the tip and tail first.
- Countersinking the holes for the pivoting hooks was tricky. The countersink bit didn't want to drill a perfectly round hole, and it tended to veer off-center. Might have been easier with drill press.
- I used several coats of spray-on varathane to seal the cut edge. Some of it ended up getting on the topsheet - I removed that with acetone.
- The instructions included in the kit were for older hardware. The PDF I got online was correct. However there were a couple things in the new PDF that were omitted ("use your toe for assembly and disassembly of the board"). I kind of combined the kit instructions, the online PDF, the Couloir article, and tips I got from various forum members.
- I must have gotten two sets of the same pucks in the kit (both regular) instead of one regular and one goofy, because they all look exactly the same. If I tried to use them to set up for goofy they wouldn't work. So check that when you receive the kit if you're goofy.
- The balance point of the board is affected by the hardware that is going to be put on. This is one reason I'd recommend installing the touring bracket/heel lift last. I had everything installed except these. I put them on the board on top of the paper template, then put a wooden rod under the board. With this I could easily find the balance point. I moved the pivot point on the touring brackets such that they were about 1/2" ahead of the balance point of the board. My Burton was about 1" ahead of the balance point; a friend's homemade Voile split was about 1/4" ahead or so. Interestingly, the Couloir article specifically recommends putting the pivot point 1/4" *behind* the balance point, so that the tip of the ski drops down when you lift your foot. This seems to me to be the opposite of what you'd want. Also, see the note below regarding crampons.
- The paper template for the touring bracket and heel block/climbing bar seemed to be a bit off. I used the template for the holes, but after installing the hardware it looked like the heel block should ideally be about 1/8" further back. The slider plate just barely lands in the correct contact area of the heel pad; it almost touches the raised border at the back of this area. The heel lift also has about 1/4" of room toward the back of the slider plate. I also ran into some related problems with the crampons.
- Speaking of crampons, if you plan on using them, you might want to get them before starting the process to make sure everything is going to line up. In my split kit there were separate L and R crampons, though I believe they may have switched to side-independent ones this year. Anyway, you want to make sure they are going to clear the edges of the ski side-to-side, which may affect the centering of the touring brackets, particularly if you have a wide board. If you have crampons, I'd recommend positioning the hardware by doing the following:
1) Find pivot point for touring bracket as described above. Then attach crampon to touring bracket and locate side-to-side position for touring bracket. Make sure the crampon is straight along the cut (straight) edge of the board. This will give you the correct location for the touring bracket. Mark the hole locations, drill and install screws (you'll remove/epoxy/reinstall them later).
2) With the crampon attached to the touring bracket, place the tabbed shim into the tab on the crampon. This gives you the correct location for the heel pad. Mark the hole locations, drill and install screws. Now check that the crampon works correctly in both fixed and mobile modes (it should).
3) At this point, remove the screws, epoxy the holes, and reinstall the screws.
4) If you don't have crampons, then I would just center the touring bracket side-to-side, and attach the slider plate, making sure it is parallel to the straight edge of the board. Mark the hole locations, drill and install screws. The crampons should fit if you get them later, as long as the ski is not too wide for them (which you can't do anything about anyway). Once the touring bracket is installed, attach the slider plate and put the heel pad and shim under the slider plate, centering it side-to-side and positioning it such that the end of the slider plate contacts the pad about 1/8" in from the raised back edge of the heel pad. Then mark the hole locations, drill and install. You could probably also use the paper templates, but I'd recommend moving the heel pad location back about 1/8", and drilling/installing the touring bracket first and double-checking the heel pad location before drilling.