Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2004 8:18 pm Posts: 270 Location: Bishop, Ca
I step away for the day, and things have really heated up over here at splitboard.com! Is it dry/warm in other parts of the world right now? Ã¢â‚¬ËœCause it's still dumping here in California! (I'm gonna get beat up for that one, I knowÃ¢â‚¬Â¦)
Quoting Carl - "I have to laugh."
What I'm trying to say is with experience, you can learn to skin (almost) as efficiently as someone on skis. They will always have an easier time, but that doesn't mean we can't learn how to accomplish the same thing. It just takes time and practice.
Ã¢â‚¬Â¦.as it really doesn't do any damage to the track it looks less pretty but what's the real damage?
Snowshoeing in a skin track does a lot of damage. It makes the track bumpy/uneven. Our skis rest atop each of these bumps, leaving a large amount of the skin hanging in space. It reduces the amount of skin in contact with the snow, and therefore reduces the amount of grip our skins have. If the terrain is steep/icy, then snowshoes can render a skintrack useless. In addition, the reason skinning is MUCH more efficient than snowshoeing is because you don't have to pick up each foot with each step. You simply glide each ski along in the track. Once a track has been beat up by snowshoers, this is no longer possible. This might sound insignificant, but over the course of a big day this can make a huge difference.
I'm not trying to start a discussion about skinning vs. snowshoeing. I'm just trying to prove a point:
You think snowshoes are a superior way to break trail/ascend a mountain, and you think snowshoeing in a skin track simply makes it Ã¢â‚¬Å“less prettyÃ¢â‚¬Â
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2004 5:16 am Posts: 43 Location: Switzerland
Carl is the greenskeeper in Caddyshack, young'ns.
you are all right - splitboarding is a gift from god and it rules over everything else i bow down in reverence to all the backcountry legends who tell me differently.
next thing i expect to hear is how you can go downhill in split mode as fast as a skier and with (almost) as much control - just takes some patience and practice and the superior talents many posters here have.
seriously, i'm just being objective and realistic and saying that splits have their limitations and other tools in some conditions are in my opinion superior - sorry if that ruffles the feathers of a few cocks (pun intended).
and you rarely venture very far from the car
i haven't owned a car for over 5 years.
Snowshoes and skis CAN'T go up steeps. Period
snowshoes (msr denalis) go up steep icy slopes quite nice - powder is a different question, but maximum angle of ascent (for me) is roughly the same with skis or splits or snowshoes in powder. skis hold a better edge on hardpack than a split - fact not fiction - physics dictate this, not some myth.
i find the (derogatory) use of 'Euro' quite humorous. i just live here. from where i come (raised in Seattle, 20 years in Colorado), many people refer to people from cali and texas and the east with that same tone, usually prefixed with curse words.
over here, unlike in amerikkka, people understand that they do not own the trail up a mountain, and there is much less negative attitude and friction between snow-sportlers than across the ocean.
it's all about having fun, and if you have to have a feeling of superority you might could use a soul massage (ahhh fuck it, just get a bigger truck
like i said in an earlier post, tolerance can be learned.
But splitboards just are superior. It's like saying the sun shines and the world is round. You're just a believer, or you're not... ahaha
Big Truck? Those guys get snowmobiles. No, the splitboard is more like one of those hybrid concept cars, everyone who drives one swears they are amazing, while everyone else spitefully poopoos them. Snowshoes are the big sport jeeps, they pretty much get anywhere in low gear, but the fuel efficiency is horrible.
_________________ Me llaman el desaparecido
que cuando llega ya se ha ido
volando vengo volando voy
de prisa de prisa rumbo perdido
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2004 7:45 am Posts: 42 Location: Routt County, CO
I'm a bit baffled by the impressions I'm getting about European touring. Crowded, hardpack all the time with skintracks broken to every conceivable location? Do you guys ever get pow?
We break trail everytime we go out. If we do find an existing skintrack, we go elsewhere. It just means the area has been tracked and is most likely being used by someone else. Why bother them when I can ski another place in peace? Just seems like common courtesy to me and is most likely the reason I haven't run into another skier outside of parking areas all winter.
I'm not going to get too started on the snoeshoeing the skintrack argument again , but I can assure you PM that your snowshoes will destroy a skintrack that is laid in soft snow. Since you spent 20 years in CO, I'm surprised you don't understand this concept. Posting a track just indicates to me that a person is either clueless or has no respect for other users. If its an accepted practice in Europe, so be it. Just know that its considered poor ettiquette over here.
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2004 10:57 pm Posts: 5098 Location: California
Nice take huevonÃ¢â‚¬Â¦and thanks for adding some much needed humor.
The use of the word Euro is by NO WAY meant to be derogatory. That's just what most people call people from (or living in) Europe. Is there a different term you would like me to use? Europeans maybe?
As for the rest of your post. You are all over the map dude, first you state your point (which is fine) then you start going off on meaningless tangents. Nobody tried to say they were superior personally for using one type of gear over the otherÃ¢â‚¬Â¦just that a splitboard is more superior than snowshoes (at least over here in the US). Did you read the part I wrote about how we should just believe you when you say snowshoes work better over there, until we can see for ourselves??
In my opinion, the more you try to convince us that your MSR snowshoes will go anywhere like steep icy slopes and how they perform equally as well as a splitboard in powder, the more your argument weakens. Maybe you think 30degrees is steep? When we think of steep we are thinking more like 45-50degress. I'd pay good money to see you try to climb up a couloir in those conditions in your cute little snowshoes. (now THAT was derogatory )
As for the friction between snow-sportlers over here, there really isn't any. Everyone is out there to have fun. We do practice good bc etiquette and to respect other sportlers though. Not snowshoeing the skin track is an example of this. I'm sorry you have such a difficult time understanding this.
Personally I think you just like to argue.
Bruce and Alison, I got so caught up in the discussion I forgot to welcome you. Welcome and thanks for joining our forum!
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2004 11:31 am Posts: 220 Location: ak
My bro came up for a week of snowboarding last week. He's in super shape(a biker), better shape than I, but after one day of climbing on snowshoes, switched to my spare split for the rest of the week. Climbing conditions ranged from 2' pow to 30Ã¢â‚¬Â¢ windpack, snow shoes being inferior on all. Fitness differences meant little, he flailed on slowshoes. He was utterly sold on splits by the end of the week.
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2005 3:48 pm Posts: 16 Location: deepest darkest devon - thats england to you lot
Thanks for the welcome guys
In the 1980's in England you would be arrested for saying "Dude"
Part of the problem is that our snow is not very reliable - I think that there are lots of technical bits about climate - maritime / continental etc etc etc but basically the snow comes down nice and fluffy like yours and then changes .... usually fairly fast! We then spend a great deal of effort looking for powder - to find it you have to cross all the steep icy crap - that is also perhaps why snowshoes in a skin track does not automatically sentence you to death ... the shoe leaves minimal impact in the ice! - Perhaps painting too bad a picture - we do have steep drops - when it is good it is awesome eg Argentiere in France is 6600 + feet - 2 lifts. but when it is bad ..... hence the need for being able to go walkabout and the saga of splits and how far do they go....
Thats also why we go to Canada as they seem to have very nice snow more of the time -
Got to back up some of the "Euro" guys here, splits are not seen in Europe because I reckon people are perfectly happy with MSR snowshoes. They do the job very well in the Alps. Snow isn't generally that deep and most tours have short approaches and are relatively steep. Snow conditions are variable and often hard packed in ascent. Tours are generally between 1000 to 2000m in ascent (that's for skiers/boarders) and ascent time 3 to 5 hours. Tours can be easy or technically very difficult. Plenty of boarders are doing very technical mountaineering tours with hard ascents and descents - on snowshoes. It's about using the right tools for the right conditions and in most cases MSR's work very well in the Alps. They are also very simple to use and allow you to use top notch solid boards in descent. MSR's plus solid boards weigh less than splits so no extra weight to carry. No need for modifications are worry about parts breaking.
MSR's plus solid boards weigh less than splits so no extra weight to carry. No need for modifications are worry about parts breaking.
You know I'm going home to weigh my solid board and MSR shoes right?!?!?
I haven't modified, fixed or even broken one single part on my split yet.
any tours I've done on my snowshoes was made tremedously easier on my split. I've carried my board for miles and felt like my hips were blown out after I finished. I've yet to have that happen w/ my split. I haven't touched my snowshoes since. depending on route the snowshoes may have some perks but just recently at the splitfest I remember passing at least 2-3 groups of snowshoers on the way in and they definitely didn't put the mileage on that our group did.
The MSR's weigh around 1.4 kg - the Voile hardware and skins weigh slightly more than this (I think - I checked a while ago).
...actually just checked websites. The MSR Evo Ascent snowshoes weigh 1.8kg. The Voile skins weigh 0.45kg and hardware 0.8kg - I don't know what the split crampons weigh - I guess around 0.2kg for the pair. So, I was probably wrong - the snowshoes maybe weigh 0.35kg more. But, I suspect a high quality modern solid board weighs a little less than a production split. Either way, the weight differences are small and don't support a major benefit for splits in this respect. I don't agree that carrying a board is such an issue, in fact I think it's better to have the weight on your back than feet (isn't there some old mountaineering saying that 1kg on your feet is like 5kg on your back????). Of course, if you're carrying a tent and huge amount of overnight gear than carrying a board on your rucksack may be a major issue.