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 Post subject: Boots that work for splitboarding
PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 12:09 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 12:39 am
Posts: 8
Location: olympic peninsula, washington
Since the Boots & Bindings section of Splitboard 101 is not up yet, newbs have to put the time in and read all the posts that all you researchers have submitted to get the right gear.

While searching of the forums and talking with other splitters, the following seems to have been the consensus:

For edging find some less stiff 3 strap hard shell AT boots like: Garmont Mega lite, Garmont Dynamite G fit, Scarpa F1 (2 strap), Scarpa Spirit 3, Scarpa Matrix, Dynafit TLT 4, Raichle SB 413, or Lowa Struktura EVO. For some setups, cants or shims under the bindings might be needed to get the hardshell boots angled correctly for board mode.

For less demanding splitting and more feel downhill, look for some stiff soft boots like Burton Driver X, DC Ghost, Salomon Malamute, Salomon F-24, DC allegiance, DC Torch.

Did I get it right?

(Updated as riders comment)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 1:03 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 6:09 pm
Posts: 388
Location: Chamonix, France
I really like my new Salomon F-24.

First the bad: the liner is not removable, so not thermofittable or replaceable, but since it fits me well I am very happy with it. And they're expensive.

The nice thing is that they have some weird foam thing where the more you tighten the stiffer the boot gets, not just tighter.

It really works, and with the *VERY* variable conditions we've been having here I have been using this a lot. In the powder I had it somewhere in the middle - good comfort and control. Before the recent dumps, when going for the potentially icy steep stuff I had it like a tourniquet. They were even stiff enough to ski down the vallee blanche in split mode in whiteout conditions. I was very very tired after that, but I was able to make it down and traverse across some very very nasty wind crust (I would write a trip report but my camera froze and I only have 4 pics, mostly of people hunching against the wind to a white background). When teaching my friend to snowboard on the green runs I was mostly waiting, so I had them very loose, but they still gave me control like softer boots I tried, it wasn't like riding with them

I think they're supposed to be pretty light and I like the lacing system too.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 6:22 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:34 am
Posts: 478
Location: Teton Valley, ID.
I just replaced my Scarpa Laser's with a pair of Spirit 3's. They are lighter for sure. Skinning is very comfortable. The 3 buckle in walk mode is awesome for surfing powder. Since it is still dumping here I haven't had a chance to try them in other conditions. I'm sure since they are a much better performer than the Laser they will surpass them in the steep and funky department. I can't say enough about the Intuition liner. Super comfortable. I also replaced my old footbeds with a new pair of Down Under moldable beds. That is the ticket for real all day comfort. :wink: AT boots- Not just for skiers anymore :idea: Edit- I use no cants at all. The angle of the cuff in ski mode is plenty for ripping nice heel side turns.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:33 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2007 1:12 am
Posts: 828
Location: PNW Hood Canal
I think I know that boarderpatrol guy, if he is really a patrol on a board from the OP/ONP.

I think if you want AT boots you have a nice list to explore although I know you have found limited options locally. As for my Lowa Struktura EVO's if they fit you can try them. Same goes for my cants, which are drilled specific for my stance angles of about 24* front and 6 or 9* rear (reguar stance). They should fit nicely on your mojo. We should hook up at your convenience. I have my snowboarding father in law visiting this week so I'm on solids at resorts, not splitting at all until maybe Sunday. If you think you and I can connect for you to try them out for Friday or Saturday but get them back to me by Saturday evening then we should make that happen.

Shoot me a PM, email or call and let me know your thoughts.

_________________
Mumbles...addicted thanks to sb.com
Mojo 171 / ST 178 / C-Split 165 / DIY Johan 162
Sparks Ignition II's / Mr. Chomps
DC Torch / Lowa Structura EVO AT


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 Post subject: Pro Ski Service ROCKS !!!
PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 1:28 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 12:39 am
Posts: 8
Location: olympic peninsula, washington
A long, bedtime story about boots:

I do ski patrol at Hurricane Ridge on my board. The lift closes March 31, but with 11' of base and more powder coming every time it rains down in town, I got a split setup to extend my season. I did a painful 2 days with my soft Flow boots and Burton C60 bindings. Traverses killed my bunions.

I put the board up for sale for 2 days until I read more from this site, seeing there might be a chance hardshells would work to solve my pain. I found some used 2004 Scarpa Lasers at a good price on one of the tele forums. They worked well for me last weekend, with a tight foot strap, and loose middle and top strap. They keep my foot planted, but with the upper straps loose, allow a feel of my soft boot for rotation and fore-aft movement. The Scarpas were not a perfect fit. My foot fit was a bit too loose, so I finally left the safety of the peninsula and fought the Seattle traffic and maniac drivers to get to where all the locals told me to go for AT boots. Its deceptively small on the outside, but packed with selection inside- Pro Ski Service off Aurora and 90th. They even rent a Mojo 166 if you want to sample. I ended up with them healing up my Burton super model 168, fitting my Scarpas for back up boots, giving me a spare Scarpa strap, and for the new Mojo, getting a pair of Garmont Mega Lite. I thought the Scarpa Matrix was going to be THE boot, but they didn't fit as well as the Garmonts. The Mega Lites are noticably lighter and more flexy in the uppers than the Scarpa Lasers and Matrix. The Garmont toe box is not as tall as the Scarpa Matrix, so it solved my looseness problem. They fit comfortably snug all around. I have no movement in the foot. They used a toe cap while thermofitting, so I have a bit of room for when my feet swell.

I found this AT boot summary by Tony, very useful to help me get down to a short list:

"Teton Gravity Research Forums > Tech Talk

AT Boot Flex Comparative List by Model

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The list has been (un-scientifically) compiled by:

a) Maggots' input comparing their stiffest AT/Freeride boots' flex (Endorphins, Tornado, Aero Freeride) against their alpine Sollies. A single alpine boot brand's flex range (in this case, Salomon) makes for better comparability in contrast to mixing flex ranges from Lange, Tecnica or Nordica.

b) Once the stiffest AT/Freeride boots flex ratings have been established, the ratings of the softer AT boots were established down the flex range fine-tuning up or down according to, again, maggots' input.


Alpine boots used for comparison

100 - Salomon X-Wave 9 ("a notch or two above Denali TT")
95 - Salomon Gun ("Endorphin not as stiff")
90 - Salomon X-Wave 8 ("the Endorphins are comparable", "if my x-wave 8 is really a flex index of 90, instead of 80 like I thought, I could agree with the fact that the FR Aero is an 80")



THE LIST (stiffest ---> softest)

-------------------------------------------------------------------

130 - Black Diamond Factor (?)

120 - Garmont Shamen* (?)

110 - Garmont Astral* (?), Black Diamond Method (?)

100- Scarpa Hurricane* (?)

90 - Garmont Endorphin, Dynafit Aero Freeride (4-buckle), Garmont Axon (?), Scarpa Typhoon/Skookum (?)

85 - Scarpa Tornado/Pro (black tongue), Scarpa Spirit 4 (black tongue), Garmont Adrenaline, Dynafit Zzero CF 4-buckle, Salomon Ellipse e2

80 - Scarpa Denali XT/TT, Scarpa Spirit 4 (green tongue), Lowa Struktura Rodeo/Pro (?), Dynafit Zzero PX 4-buckle

75 - Scarpa Spirit 3, Garmont Megaride/G-Ride, Lowa Struktura Evo, Dynafit Aero Speed (3-buckle), Dyanfit Zzero CF 3-buckle

70 - Scarpa Matrix, Old Scarpa Denali (4-buckle red shell), Dynafit TLT 700

60 - Scarpa Laser, Garmont Dynamite, Dynafit TLT 500 (2-buckle + strap), Scarpa F3

50 - Scarpa F1, Garmont Megalite, Dynafit TLT 4 Evo (3-buckle), Dynafit TLT 4 Lite (2-buckle + strap), Dynafit Zzero 2C (?)

40 - Scarpa F1 Race (2-buckle, no strap), Dynafit TLT Race Pro (1-buckle + strap)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(*) You can argue that these are not proper AT boot as they lack a walking mode. Nevertheless, they are not alpine boots either as they have Vibram/rubber soles.

(?) The boots marked with the question mark are new 2008/2009 boots and have not been tested yet. Their position in the list is a guesstimate given comments in other websites (Wildsnow, Pistehors, etc.) and ISPO/SIA show's sightings.


Flex Rating Guide for AT Boot Jongs:

120-100 flex rating boots currently in the market are "hybrid" boots. They are neither proper AT boots (no walking mode) nor alpine boots (have Vibram soles). These features make them most appropiate for the sidecountry skier that wants the stiffest boot with Vibram soles for the ocassional bootpack through rocky terrain. He probably ski them with Marker Dukes too, so best for 10% uphill / 90% downhill.

90-85 flex rating is the new breed of "freerando" boots good for single-day BC forays and mixed on-piste/sidecountry use. Given the improvements in stiffness, many users buy these boots as their "quiver of one" for both piste and off piste skiing. They all come with 4 buckles, the stiffest tongues, both ISO and DIN-compatible soles and are best for 20% uphill / 80% downhill.

80-75 flex rating used to be the stiffest boots you could get 3 years ago. They are softer boots than the Freerando variety, light enough for extended touring but with enough stiffness for decent downhill performance. Probably this is the most popular category epitomized by the Scarpa Denali (in its various evolutions), well-liked among guides and patrollers in both North America and Europe. Might be the best choice if you are planning to have only one AT boot, as they provide decent downhill performance but they are also light enough for multi-day hut touring. Targeted best for 35% uphill / 65% downhill.

70-60 flex rating is the quintessential lightweight multi-day hut-to-hut touring boot. When fewer options were available, the Scarpa Laser was for many years the most sold AT boot in the world. If you mod them with stiffer Denali/Flexon tongues, thermo liners and Booster straps, it will make them at least 15-20 flex stiffer. Think Chamonix-Zermatt: 50% uphill / 50% downhill.

50 flex rating is excellent for the alpinist/ski mountaineer that needs a superlight boot for winter/glaciar approaches and wants to regularly ice/rock climb or walk in them with crampons on. Almost all have two buckles and are best for 70% uphill / 30% downhill.

40 flex rating is the land of lycra-laden Euro randonee racers. These boots are uber-specialized, stripped off to the max to minimize weight, provide minimal descent support and probably not worth it unless your VO2 max is up there with Lance's. Think Pierra Menta: 90% uphill / 10% downhill.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by Tony : 01-13-2008 at 03:28 PM. "

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/show ... +lite+mega


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 2:30 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2007 1:12 am
Posts: 828
Location: PNW Hood Canal
boarderpatrol is now dialed in, I'm going to the ridge! Glad you found something that fit your feet and keep you in split mode vice going to boot packing or AT skis. Keep that mojo and you'll be happy. Once that gate opens daily I'm going to work on that 11' base until well into spring and may try some longer trips into the interior to see if there is ample corn in some of the more remote locations. I have to figure out a good way to hike in with a freaking split board on my pack, but I think the effort will be worth it.

Also delighted to hear that your venture to the Seattle side was productive and you returned safely.

_________________
Mumbles...addicted thanks to sb.com
Mojo 171 / ST 178 / C-Split 165 / DIY Johan 162
Sparks Ignition II's / Mr. Chomps
DC Torch / Lowa Structura EVO AT


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 1:00 am 
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Joined: Wed May 09, 2007 1:32 am
Posts: 9
I had to niggle with my setup this year to save some weight, and get a quicker, livelier ride. It worked! went from a prior BC 173 with clickers to a new carbon khyber prior with mountain plates. The boots I settled on are Dynafit Zzero 3-tf's.
I enjoy the amount of feel and kung fu-ablility of soft boots, and initially, was pretty put off by the Frankenrider thing (AAARRR! MMEE RRIIDDDEE POWW DURRR!) However, I finally got it together, and -HERE IS THE KEY- I swapped out the toungues. The stock toungues are way to stiff to allow full kung fu master moves. But those limp hinged toungues from scarpa's spirit 3's are perfect. They provide almost O support, and I leave the tops of the boot cuffs very loose.
The interface between the boots and the plate bindings have lots of flex for shifting weight front to back, or for tucking that back knee forward.
Saved between 4 and 5 pounds. Rides great.


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 Post subject: Hardboots, opinions?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 11:00 am 
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Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 5:39 am
Posts: 19
Location: Norway
Hi. - I`m interested in comments on hardboots.
- My Scarpa F1 is worn out. Quite satisfied, but now i`m thinking of those:
Dynafit TLT 4 Lite or race Pro, or Dynafit Zzero.

Could the Lite or Race pro be to soft or low?
I am also thinking that two forward angles to chose from could be good. (Zzero) But those are rather stiff.

Some comments indicate that beeing able to soften the boot by opening front buckle is a pro, but does that apply to all styles, or is that more for "softboot style"? I'm riding Prior ATV with binding angles 30-40 deegrees. Bomber step-in bindings. Think I have got used to use knee and hips for turns.

Any comments would be appreciated.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 11:32 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 1:43 pm
Posts: 439
Location: Western Washington
My $.02, for what it is worth. I am using Dynafit TLT4's with Thermo short liners and a power strap around the liner cuff on top. No spoiler used. I come from a snowboard hardboot background, ride about the same angles as you on my split, higher on my freeride boards (50f/45r). For me, buckles are mandatory, so I would not use any of the models with a top strap in the buckles place. I cannot comment on the ZZeros, have not flexed them yet. Only you can weigh all the factors and decide. Are they significantly lighter? I also assume that you are using Bomber bindings with the toe bail, as you are now using Scarpa's, so they are not step-in bindings. The Bombers I have are not cooperating with my TLT's, I have had the bails release on me landing airs, this may only be me, though, as I probably could tinker with my setup some more. The Dynafit boots have a small bail ledge, so setup carefully. All in all, I love these boots, the best for me yet.

_________________
Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them (Frederick Douglass)


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 Post subject: wery useful
PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:15 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 5:39 am
Posts: 19
Location: Norway
Thanks a lot. - I have the same experience, prefer to tighten up the cuff. Think that rule out the TLT race pro, which are light but expensive.

The zzeros are stiffer and a little heavier than TLT4, but come with both 2,3 or 4 buckles. They give more forward lean than TLT, guess that is more similar to carving race boots, but guess that is not good in powder. (?)
- Of course you are right about bindings, we use the term "step-in" for crampons with bails:) The Zzero fit all AT-bindings, so I guess bombers would work. (TLT will only fit dynafit bindings)

Thanks again, Johan

http://www.telemark-pyrenees.com/shop/p ... e58f5be856

Jon Dahl wrote:
My $.02, for what it is worth. I am using Dynafit TLT4's with Thermo short liners and a power strap around the liner cuff on top. No spoiler used. I come from a snowboard hardboot background, ride about the same angles as you on my split, higher on my freeride boards (50f/45r). For me, buckles are mandatory, so I would not use any of the models with a top strap in the buckles place. I cannot comment on the ZZeros, have not flexed them yet. Only you can weigh all the factors and decide. Are they significantly lighter? I also assume that you are using Bomber bindings with the toe bail, as you are now using Scarpa's, so they are not step-in bindings. The Bombers I have are not cooperating with my TLT's, I have had the bails release on me landing airs, this may only be me, though, as I probably could tinker with my setup some more. The Dynafit boots have a small bail ledge, so setup carefully. All in all, I love these boots, the best for me yet.


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