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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 10:58 am 
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Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2005 7:43 pm
Posts: 871
I don't know why I had not noticed BCD's binding set-up before, it is actually right on in terms of what I need for my mlt's. For me if I had a binding like that, I would have no complaints or need for a different boot.

In terms of all the other things debated on this post and I don't mean to beat a dead horse here. When I read of some of the shit WOW has done, it blows my mind. He has definetely earned the respect of people in Wasatch, backcountry just has Tom Burt has in the snowboard community, and it wasn't done in 5 years. So I really respect that.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:47 am 
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Location: Reno
Beat that dead horse all you want, and that's exactly what I was pointing out as the narrow-minded attitude that seems so pervasive in THIS particular community of backcountry snowboarders.

Jive Stick has been touring in the Wasatch for almost as long as I've been alive. He has also been advancing the science of avalanche forecasting, pretty much since there was such a thing in the US.

Does that mean that he's a good source to get advice on equipment and technique choices for modern alpinism at high alititide? Not even close.

Does that mean that I should scrap a system that works for me... or not tell anyone else about it, to avoid the risk of offending the sensibilities of the almighty WOW? Puuuhhhleease...


Call me crazy, but I look at a specific discipline, then I go to the best at it and see what they do.

I tried hard boots at altitude, because Griber, Koch, Craig Kelly (RIP) all use them when they go for the big climbs. And, oddly enough, it works great for me.

I train myself and my clients/athletes the way I do, because Steve House, Kelly Cordes, Mark Twight, etc... the strongest climbers in America and many of the greatest ski racers in the world train that way.

What works for 6 days a week in dry Wasatch powder won't necessaily be the best choice on hard, wind-packed snow at 19,000 feet.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 3:21 pm 
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Zach,
Please don't stop sharing what works for you, because I think alot of us are interested in your points and learn alot. I am definetely ignorant to what works at 19000 ft, I have never been that high and don't plan to at least in the near future. That would be great if six out of seven days a week were powder days here in the wasatch, but we definetly have our fair share of hard pack days, which I enjoy because I enjoy light snowboard mtneering. So I think we should continue this debate, it never gets old for me, my problem is finding the $$ to try out these different systems. Does anyone want to sponsor me?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:32 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 12:36 pm
Posts: 17
I agree with UTAH's comments 100%. Acrimony aside, this thread has been a goldmine of info for a newby such as myself.

Zach's comments actually helped push me over the edge to sack up and order my first split (new Voile 166). Most of what I want to do is easy 'slackcountry' and splitting with softboots seems the ticket.

Now if I can just get up enough nerve to tell my wife that we've added the 11th snowboard to the family quiver... :shock:

Best,

T.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:59 pm 
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Location: Salt Lake
:idea: There is obviously only one way to settle this once and for all ! UTAH VS. CALI in a CHINESE DOWNHILL !! Name the time and the place and I'll be there

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 5:22 pm 
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Posts: 137
Quote:
What works for 6 days a week in dry Wasatch powder won't necessaily be the best choice on hard, wind-packed snow at 19,000 feet.


So, then what would be the suggested tool for this dry powder?

Image

Image

Yeah, I know, it's not 19'000' but with all that experience in the wind pack...


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 5:29 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 12:45 pm
Posts: 158
Location: Reno
YYYaaaaawwwwwnnnnn....

Jive, seriously... Explain to me, why it get's your undies in such a twist when I use a different set-up than you.

And, BTW - you're right. It's not 19k. There is ZERO comparison between wind-blasted snow on a slope that has standing trees, vs. an environment where the wind can knock you off your feet, the overnight temperature is -40 or less, and ice can be flash-vaporized by the rising sun.

Add in hypoxia, frostbite, dehydration, and insomnia... yeah, it's really similar :roll:

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 7:41 pm 
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Posts: 137
Wull, Zach, yer fun to tease and the responses are entertaining to say the least.
I've learned all about how to lift the skis, exercises at the gym, holier than thou, splitboarders are like telemarkers( except for the patchouli), you need AT boots to snowboard at alltitude, there"s some rad dudes out there using them, Voile guys are like 10 year olds(poor dj) the constant it's not cool ifn ya don't go high, etc, etc.
A lot of us have used approach skis and flip flops on the ascent. I used them for several years exclusively, learning to ride and I'm still an admitted hack at that.
No one else is on a forum dedicated to splitboards dissing that mode and raving about the advantages of approach skis.
I still use mine and have five pair, three in current use. May ski :shock: on a pair over the weekend
It is not a rediscovery of the wheel.

So didn't ya hafta drill thru them skin rivets to get t-nuts installed?

I'd better deal with my undies.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 8:11 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2005 8:29 pm
Posts: 208
Location: Bermuda Triangle
I do feel I owe a responsibility to the community on this forum to take part in offering feedback and information regarding splitboarding and bc snowboarding. As well as being an avid "weekend warrior", M-F I have the unique opportunity that allows me to deal with splitboarders via email, phone and in person, and I receive feedback daily. I help design and test gear. I see all warranty issues firsthand. I work with all the Voile dealers discussing what's selling for them in their location, and I know exactly how many boards Voile, Prior, Never Summer, Unity, Option, and Burton are selling- they all get their hardware from one source. We receive feedback from our European distributors as well. In addition, we get photos, emails, and TR's from splitters all over the globe providing feedback, sharing their stoke... Guys like Jay Beyers who worked for BD (now living in MT) and who vacationed in Equador to do some high-altitude splitboard mountaineering. Guys like this have become pretty commonplace, and most of them are very quiet, and they let their riding speak for themselves. It would be complete ignorance for anyone to assume that the R+D for splits was based solely on experiences within the Wasatch. Again, this is not a CA vs. UT thing.

I sincerely support constructive debate, and I'm at complete ease with people using and choosing whatever gear works for them. But I also believe that for every frequent forum member participant here, there are numerous others new to the bc that come to splitboard.com looking for valuable info. This is why I chose to weigh in on this particular thread.

The bottom line is that the consumers are smart. They aren't remotely fooled by products that don't deliver. This is why you won't find a company making approach skis or verts that can match the growth of the splitboard. There is a reason why these companies don't exist, and it has absolutely nothing to do with marketing. The products have spoken for themselves. Another good example would be this forum- Is there an approachski.com? A verts.com?

Get in the bc and earn your turns however you may, it can be life changing- it was for me. If your budget is limited, pick up some approach skis or verts or snowshoes. If you've got the dough, than go for a split, it is the ultimate tool for bc boarding- don't take my word for it, just listen to the thousands of others that have voted with their dollar.

Oh yeah- if you do pick up some approach skis, make sure you have money left over for some tylenol. Those skis on your pack are going to give you a few headshots if you ever decide to catch air on the decent! And when you encounter sections that require booting, you'll need to throw both your skis and snowboard on your back, so be prepared! :wink:

Remember to smile, after all we're talking about snowboarding! :D


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 8:46 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 12:45 pm
Posts: 158
Location: Reno
That's some funny shit....

All nicey-nice, trying to play it off like it was a little friendly ribbing.

In the 2 or so years (Chris?) that this site has been around, just about every time I posted about my gear opinions or choices, either Jive or DJ copped a big attitude, as if I should first clear my opinions with their little insiders club of magical backcountry snowboarding knowledge.

When I worked at Couloir, I had to be diplomatic about it, and man was that a drag.

So, I'll ask again.. in more direct language:

Why the big hard-on for me guys?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 8:48 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 12:45 pm
Posts: 158
Location: Reno
jive stick wrote:
Wull, Zach, yer fun to tease and the responses are entertaining to say the least.
I've learned all about how to lift the skis, exercises at the gym, holier than thou, splitboarders are like telemarkers( except for the patchouli), you need AT boots to snowboard at alltitude, there"s some rad dudes out there using them, Voile guys are like 10 year olds(poor dj) the constant it's not cool ifn ya don't go high, etc, etc.
A lot of us have used approach skis and flip flops on the ascent. I used them for several years exclusively, learning to ride and I'm still an admitted hack at that.
No one else is on a forum dedicated to splitboards dissing that mode and raving about the advantages of approach skis.
I still use mine and have five pair, three in current use. May ski :shock: on a pair over the weekend
It is not a rediscovery of the wheel.

So didn't ya hafta drill thru them skin rivets to get t-nuts installed?

I'd better deal with my undies.


Your level of insecurity is appalling dude.... never once claimed that what I am doing is somehow better than what you do.

Why do I get under your skin so easily?

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 2:24 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 8:41 pm
Posts: 1622
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Zach wrote:
In the 2 or so years (Chris?) that this site has been around, just about every time I posted about my gear opinions or choices, either Jive or DJ copped a big attitude, as if I should first clear my opinions with their little insiders club of magical backcountry snowboarding knowledge.

Maybe it's because many posts from you have an undertone of this exact same attitude that you claim everyone who disagrees with you has against you. Then after you make one of said posts, and someone retorts or challenges you, you follow it up with a "why me" post saying that you're not claiming that you think your methods are better than anyone elses, and why is so-and-so getting all bent over your message. Maybe this is what you legitimately believe, but I gotta say, that is not the way that your posts come across. They just have a condescending vibe, which I think is the main issue that gets the flame war going. Maybe it is the anonymity of the net. Maybe it is the difference in written vs. verbal expression. I dunno. That is just what I see from the sidelines, and I really don't think I'm the only one. FWIW.

Anyway, can we drop this now? I normally try to stay out of the bickering, but as someone said, this is getting old. I think the personal stuff should just go in PM's. (though I guess I just broke that rule...)

Back on topic:

bcd wrote:
Jeez. Can't you guys stay on topic around here?
Yeah, I know its fun to make fun of people. But I'm pretty sure this thread was aimed at JimW:

powderjunkie wrote:
I also thought it would be more enjoyable to make fun of jimw verts. I know Jim can take a lot of abuse from us. :D :D


Verts? That's just French for ‘can't snowshoe'. Free your heel, Jim. That way you'll be way more 'core than all those fixed-heel snowshoers out there.

Dude, you're totally right. I'm selling the split AND the Verts right now! :) Oh yeah, and the purpose of this thread is in fact to make fun of me. Bring it on!

karma surf wrote:
Is there an approachski.com? A verts.com?

That's it, I'm going to start a Verts forum! I'll probably be the only member but what the hell.

But seriously... just to clarify. There is pretty much only one thing I use Verts for, and that is climbing up steep chutes that are too steep to skin. Not all of us can skin all the way to the top of chutes like this (like BCD):

Image

Pretty much any time I'd normally be booting, I'm on the Verts, and it's WAAAY better than booting. This would be a bit less of an issue with a PMB type boot (like the mods mentioned here) at least in firmer spring conditions, but in the steep and deep Verts really do work great.

However, they are not certified for use above 15,000 feet. :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:57 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 12:37 pm
Posts: 1873
Location: in between
zoinks. :shock: :shock: :shock:

I'm here to post in this very important thread.

It seems after all this time on-line together we could figure this shit out and realize that it is different strokes for different folks.


One major point I'd like to throw out there is this:

THIS IS NOT AN ANONYMOUS FORUM.

Where is the "shame" icon. :roll: :roll: :roll:


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