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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 9:32 am 
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I sure do wish there was a way to make boots...Dan?

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 9:59 am 
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The easiest thing would be to just contract with a mountaineering boot company like Koflach, Scarpa, or La Sportiva to produce a boot to spec.

There are a bunch of ways to work a deal, but you would probably help defray the cost of a designer's salary as you work up a design, pay for tooling up their production line and commit to buying some number of boots at some price. The boot company could take on more or less of the design and tooling costs, depending on how much exposure they want to risk & profit. It's called Manufacturing agreement and they do it all the time in my industry, biotech.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 10:48 am 
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I'm just curious what people envision a snowboard mtneering boot looking like( e.g would it fit in a soft boot binding or would it work with a plate binding or race binding, etc.) I ask because I like my mlt's, I would probably go with something just a little stiffer if I had the $, and I'm sure if I had endless amounts of money I could find a boot on the market that works perfectly for what I want. I see guys ripping big AT boots on their snowboards, doing sick lines, they don't seem limited. I wonder how much of it is lack of skill vs. lack of effective equipment.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 11:23 am 
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Apologies in advance for the drift... :oops:

We are talking about a plastic shell boot with stiff, crampon-compatible, vibram soles, high cuffs and flex characteristics similar to something like a Malamute or Driver X. You would use it with strap bindings or strap/plate hybrids. It's for people who may (or in my case may not) be plenty skilled, but prefer riding softboots to hardboots and who find that current softboot offerrings are inadequate when it comes to skinning, climbing, kicking steps, and staying dry on multi-day trips.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 11:23 am 
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Location: Reno
I've tried just about every iteration of boot and binding combo and cobble-job possible, and here are the conclusions that I've come to:

1. Soft Boots with strap bindings, on a splitboard, are a great option for local backcountry... and pretty much anything below 15k-feet and not involving technical climbing... if you like riding in soft boots.

2. For actual snowboard mountaineering, very little needs to be fixed. AT boots with plate bindings are a perfect option...You may not like the hard boot riding style. However, the warmth and climbing performance of plastic boots combined with the reliability and durability of metal, plate bindings overcome that problem pretty easily. Witness the fact that the guys who have really pushed the limits of snowboard mountaineering use this set-up (Koch, Griber, etc....)

I would like to see a 2-piece plate binding (toe-block and heel block) to cut weight, and it's likely that Bomber will be making a pair for me, before I head off on my next trip.

Some may disagree with me, but just look at the tangible results out there:

- BCD and bc rider have been scoring some bitchin' runs all over the Sierra in their soft-boot - splitboard set ups.

- All of the ground-breaking descents at altitude have been done in AT boots with plate bindings.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 12:30 pm 
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At risk of... :cry:
:wink:

Zach wrote:
I've tried just about every iteration of boot and binding combo and cobble-job possible, and here are the conclusions that I've come to:


Having tried most every method, also, including yours, about 15 years ago, my conclusion leads me to the fact that the ideal solution is currently unavailable. K2 came very close the year before they got outta the bc touring game.

Quote:
All of the ground-breaking descents at altitude have been done in AT boots with plate bindings.

Out of curiosity, Zach, have you ever heard of Tom Burt or Jim Zeller?

I know of one company very interested in a hybrid boot specific to snowboarding. Hopefully they will get serious.
As for the garage cobbles, well, isn't that how the splitboard came about in the first place.
BTW, seen most of the current cobbles in years past.
I always think avalanche and possible release from the board. That lack is foremost in my mind of things needing address.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 12:43 pm 
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Location: Reno
Yup.. I know of Tom and Jim... and, all of their serious climbs and descents at altitudes above 15k were done with plastic boots and plate bindings. They both ride in soft boots and use splitboards, but not at high altitude. The risk of frostbite is just too severe, and the compromise of climbing performance isn't worth it.

Keep reachin', old man.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 12:55 pm 
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Can you show me some evidence of that, Zach.
And by the way, I don't appreciate the insults in every conversation I have with you, both in person and on the internet.
Been there and done that.
Wishin I'd a snapped a pic of the day you were laying in the snow wondering about lunch the last time we toured together, youngster.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 1:25 pm 
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Location: Reno
jive stick wrote:
Can you show me some evidence of that, Zach.
And by the way, I don't appreciate the insults in every conversation I have with you, both in person and on the internet.
Been there and done that.
Wishin I'd a snapped a pic of the day you were laying in the snow wondering about lunch the last time we toured together, youngster.


Their trip report regarding the Orient Express is out there, online somewhere.. I also asked Tom what set-up he used on that route, and he reccomended plate bindings with plastic boots.

As for the insults... take a good look at your attitude.

The "holier-than-thou"/"I know better than everyones else" thing is gettin' old. I don't ever recall insulting you in person, but if I did, at least I had the balls to do it... instead of jabbing away with thinly veiled ridicule on an anonymous forum.

I could be wrong... been wrong before... but, the last I remember, your experience is limited to touring in the Wasatch. Nothing wrong with that. If you have some experience at high altitude and wish to correct me, i'm open to it. Otherwise, stick to what you know. I don't see in any of my posts where I've challenged your idea of what is best for touring in the Wasatch.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 1:43 pm 
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Bwahahahahahahahahahaha...you two are killin' me...I am going to get some popcorn and a soda for the rumble in the jungle. Looks like we all could use a dose of nice cold face shots for all. :D Let's make like hippies and peace out!

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 3:09 pm 
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Location: Meyers, CA
This is not meant as gasoline!

I second WSR's words of calm, but I would like to note that the summit of Everest is in the back of this photo and Marco Siffredi is riding a strap binding setup on a solid board, probably with PMBs under his insulated gaiters. I'm sure one could ride down it with other setups as well.

Image

I thought one of the cooler things about the Couloir article was how it showed the equipment diversity there is among backcountry riders.

Ten years ago I'd never ridden a splitboard and I thought my snowshoes ruled...


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 3:21 pm 
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:D I forgot about Marco... that's an awesome photo.

Those were some seriously modified strap bindings from F2. The high backs were a thin strip of aluminum. I'm pretty sure he was sponsored by Asolo on that trip...

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 6:53 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2005 8:29 pm
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Location: Bermuda Triangle
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh I gotta dive in headfirst here... :lol:

Congratulations to Couloir for FINALLY including some strap bindings for splitters. This is the first issue that's ever shown any, as they've stated in print that they can't support non-releasable bindings. (What about almost all the tele bindings they continuously feature?) I have great respect for Craig, I love the mag, I've been an avid devourer of it for years. I understand that when they put a boarder on the cover, issue sales are down, but I still feel they are very out of touch with the bc snowboarding revolution. This article is a very small step in the direction of addressing their snowboarding readers.

Kudos also to the forum members here who provided input for the article, their diverse gear choices are an accurate reflection of what's taking place in the bc snowboarding world.

Unfortunately approach skis, verts and slowshoes should be given the same space in an article about ascent options for skiers. How many skiers do we see using verts, approach skis and snowshoes in the bc? These tools all have their place, and if any boarders are using these options to get turns, I'm happy for them. The reality is that the splitboard is the ultimate tool for earning snowboard turns in the bc- regardless of whether you live in Cali, AK, Utah, Europe, or wherever.

I'll be the first to admit that the older Voile Freerides were much too soft for dropping steep chutes in firm conditions, but things have changed dramatically since then.

Zach, I question your motive in choosing to devolve to approach skis. Especially when you consider that John Griber came to me last year and asked for a Mtn Gun! And especially when I consider the tour I spent with you and others at splitfest in Tahoe. One member in our group was using approach skis (Zach was on a split by the way...), and he unfortunatley broke a ski on the tour. I really believe there's a significant reason that we're not discussing this info on approachski.com, verts.com, or snowshoe.com!

The splitboard is new. Stiff splitboards that can handle gnarly terrain are even newer. When Griber and Koch were cutting their teeth as snowboard mountaineers there were no other choices. Things have changed, the future is here. If you were at the top of your game, would you be eager to embrace a completely different tool that you had limited experience with? Especially considering that your very life may be at risk? Griber personally confirmed this to me when he shared that his only split was a homebrew that he did himself. He wasn't going to stake his life on his split kit board chop. If Griber had a Mtn Gun when he began his snowboard mountaineering pursuits, you can bet his resume would be very different today. As for Koch, he has only had experience with 2 Burton splits with Burton interfaces- a design that was abandoned because of excessive bc failures. Not a recipe for succes from a remote summit.

Zach, if approach skis are so killer, why would you attempt to get Donek to make splits? Why would you have them make you a custom split? Why would you come to me at Voile looking for a killer deal on splitboard gear? I could very well be missing something, but your rhetoric seems hypocritical... maybe it's just me :roll:

And if you're an expert at high altitude mountaineering, what peak above 14,000 ft have you snowboarded from the top of? As far as Jive not having the 'nads to insult you in person, that's just not true- I witnessed it a few times! :wink: Just know that while you're in your gym, Jive is earning turns, and that while you were bmx'ing, Jive was earning turns, and that when you chase whatever else is in your future, Jive will still be earning turns. You could spend the rest of your life in the mountains, and you will never catch up. He has more experience in the bc than any other person I've ever met, and working at Voile has given me many opportunities to associate with numerous bc fanatics.

There isn't a line in the lower 48 that requires hardboots and plate bindings. I can also guarantee that you will see more and more riders in soft boots and strap bindings claiming first descents all over the globe. Equipment selection is based more upon personal preference. I'm happy for all snowboarders getting turns in whatever way works for them, or in whatever way fits their budget. But I do believe there are some very misinformed people, and it's just their lack of experience with a split.

Zach I have no hard feelings bro, it's just that you open yourself up to so many easy shots... How can a guy resist? :wink:

Peace to all! :D (Including the Zachster!)

PS- A few of us have really been brainstorming down at Voile lately. Could a split specific strap binding from Voile be next? Hmmm...


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