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 Post subject: Voile conversion didn't take... Ripped out bindings
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 7:30 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 6:42 am
Posts: 97
Location: Northern Utah
Hey All,

I just emailed Jack for some ideas and thought I'd stick it on here too. We didn't have much luck with the Voile conversion kit. Love the setup but not very happy with the ripped out bindings. Anyway, here's my email. If anyone els has any input, I'd love to hear it. I'll stick some pics on if I can figure it out!


Jack,
Just wondering how your self-manufactured pucks have held up? Did you end up using UHMD (polycarb?) My husband and I decided to just go with the Voile suggestions and drill everything out. We followed their directions to the "T" and were pretty happy with the results. Unfortunately, the pucks were only held in with some wood screws. We found out this weekend that wood screws aren't enough. Eric took a sharp transition which threw him over the front of his board and both bindings ripped completly out of his board. After the initial shock and laughter, we were pretty bummed. Now we're trying to manufacture our own pucks so we can use the Burton inserts. We have already cut out the pucks and are just getting to the drilling of the hole pattern. Eric is pretty worried about stress fractures where the pucks are held down by the metal plates. We were just wondering what your experiences have been. Have you got many days on the new set up? Eric rode his board a total of 3 times after the Voile switch before he ripped out the screws. Hoping for some good news. We love the Voile setup, but we're pretty burnt up about the ripped topsheet. Anyway, thanks for any insights and for the great ideas.

Boardergirl

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 8:01 am 
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Posts: 54
I've had about 5 long days on my manufactured pucks and they are showing no sign of wear. It was also in the negative degrees two of the days. I think the plastic I used was policarbonate but I'm not sure. It is clear and rigid, but not overly rigid. Sort of like a slightly softer plexi-glass. I was told that it is not very UV resistant, but I figure as long as I store the board in side its all good. All I used to make the pucks was a table saw by sinking the blade down so just a little bit of the blade is sticking up. FYI, if I had it to do over again (and I may) I would cut the pucks a little big at first and then just shave more off as needed. I also used a saw blade with lots of teeth as apposed to a blade used for rougher cuts. Hope this helps.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 8:09 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2005 11:55 pm
Posts: 87
Location: Seattle, WA
how did you drill and prep your screw holes for the bindings?

may be salvagable if you placed some of those expandable plugs in the holes...ski shops have them.

maybe someone with some shop experience could help you on this.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 8:18 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 6:42 am
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Location: Northern Utah
We actually had a good friend/ski tech. from our local shop help us with the whole process. We pre-drilled the screw holes and filled them with epoxy. We actually been thinking about trying the expandable plugs, but as you can see from the pics, the holes are blown out really bad. The top sheet is puckered really bad, and a ton of wood got ripped out too. We thought we'd try to use the Burton inserts since they're probably a little stronger than trying to use the ripped out holes. I guess our last resort would be to majorly swiss cheese the base and put some T-nuts in. Don't really want to do that! :cry:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 9:09 am 
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Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:16 am
Posts: 31
Location: Salt Lake
Crap, I'm so sorry that happened to you. Your stance looks pretty normal, are you sure you can't get the pucks to fit on the burton inserts? Are you using the universal pucks? With the universal pucks I was able to get a few different stances on the predrilled inserts by swiveling the the inner circle. Check out dishwasher dave's and jimw's post at the end of 'burton boards' under 'reviews'. I promise to get my pics on there soon- once I get my act together.


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 Post subject: Oh poop!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 11:06 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 1:43 pm
Posts: 439
Location: Western Washington
It looks like you used the Voile split kit. You will need to repair as much of the topsheet damage as you can with epoxy and clamps, then drill out your screw holes again. This time, though, drill 2 or 3 of them all the way through and countersink them through the base for inserts. 1/4" threaded inserts are available from Voile or your local hardware store, get stainless ones. This is a project I'm in the middle of right now. You will also need to slightly drill out the pucks for the new screws too. Then rob an old ski of p-tex and fill the holes up, grind the base and go ride. Or get the pucks that the factory boards use (they are different) and do as some of the others have already done.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 2:50 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 12:06 pm
Posts: 354
Location: PDX
Hey Boardergirl, got your email, but I figured I would just reply here. Anyway, that's a bummer! Looks like the board is definitely salvageable though.

As for my setup, I only have about 5 days on my setup, but I have sort of tried to thrash it from the get go, as to be sure it would not fail later on during a more committed trip. So far it has held up great. As for the type of plastic I used, it's a total mystery, its strait from the scrap bin of the hardware store. Originally I used UHMWPE (Ultra High Molecular Weight Polyethylene) but those blocks I cut weren't very square, so I never mounted or tested them. It looks like Bigboater used Polycarbonate or maybe it's an Acrylic, and it seems like that is pretty solid. Also, the sb.com user Burton suggested I use POM (Polyoximethylen), as that is what he used during his similar project. In general, I would say that the material doesn't matter much as long as it's not a low density or commodity plastic. The force it would take to have 6 or 8 bolt heads to shear though about .15â€Â

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"take it easy, if its easy take it twice..."


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 Post subject: Ripped out screws.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 12:39 am 
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Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 2:01 pm
Posts: 6
Location: Washington
Sorry to hear about the board.

My friends and I all ride boards we split ourselves. The ones we are riding now have lasted several years with lots of use/climbs in the Pacific Northwest. My board feels strong and I trust it with my life.

I learned the lesson you are learning the easy way. Before I split the board I ride now, in 2002, my friend set up a Rossignol with the V-kit and yes he used the woodscrews with epoxy. He pre-drilled just enough to make it really strong and it was fine for a few tours.

Push came to shove when he took a drop that was bigger than expected and tore his bindings off. The best part was that HE RODE IT OUT, like he was on a skateboard, unattached. It was heroic, and definately a design flaw. He stomped it. So we all got smart and T-bolted everything.

If your good, you can countersink the t-bolt, cover with a bit of epoxy and buff it out. Really, who cares about aethetics here? Then you will never be worried. I know my binders will never come off. Speed has never been an issue either.

My friend just fixed his top-sheet (as was mentioned above in another post) and drilled through the board to apply the t-bolts and that was it. He's still riding the board and it took 2 hours to fix the whole thing. He rode it the next day.

That's my 2 cents. Keep it strong and it will last a long time. T-bolts!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 7:44 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 6:42 am
Posts: 97
Location: Northern Utah
Hey Guys...

Thanks for all of the responses and ideas. We actually thought of most of the things that you all suggested. (Great minds think alike!) We may end up getting the Voile universal pucks since that seems like about the best option (thanks u-girl!). We have a long weekend starting tomorrow and don't want to be sitting at home waiting for pucks to arrive... so we're trying to build our own for now. Also thought about drilling out the pucks that came with the conversion kit, but with the hollow area in the back, we're pretty sure that bolts will rip through. Also, the bolts need to be countersunk and that doesn't leave much material between bolt and board.
Eric already has 5 holes in each ski from T-bolting the touring bracket and risers on, so the T-nut idea is our last resort. That might have to happen if this little project doesn't work.
Jack, we used your ideas on making our own puck. Used a router and it worked great. New pucks fit almost perfect! Last night we spent the night cutting out all the little "volcano holes" in the topsheet where the screws pulled out. Filled everything with epoxy to hopefully keep it from getting water damage. Tonight's project is drilling out the new pucks with the burton hole pattern. We pretty much have to get that right the first try or we're screwed! Only have one set of pucks machined out!
I think someone suggested doing a pencil rubbing to get the hole pattern right. Is that the best approach?
Anyway, thanks again for all the suggestions. Hopefully we'll get it all back together in time for a nice long weekend in the pow. I'll let you all know how it works out.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 8:52 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:12 pm
Posts: 1598
Location: Now Oaktowntastic
Hey boardergirl,

Jack made a PDF of the Burton hole pattern which you can find here. (Correct me if I'm wrong about that hole pattern, Jack.) Anyway, he recommended double-checking the measurements, but I think that will help you drill the holes correctly in your new pucks.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 11:29 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 12:06 pm
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Location: PDX
hey SanFran, that pdf is for the touring stuff. actually, i could probably make a template of the puck mounting holes. i'll try to find that stuff this afternoon.

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"take it easy, if its easy take it twice..."


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 11:54 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:12 pm
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Location: Now Oaktowntastic
Cool, Jack. If you get it together, email it to me and I'll host it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 1:39 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 3:10 pm
Posts: 54
The pencil rubbing worked for me, but the hard part is positioning the rubbing on the right spot on the pucks. The holes will be perfect with proximity to each other, but the pucks may not end up in the right spot on the board. I spent a lot of time checking and re-checking before I drilled. If the pucks are clear this is actually a lot easier. If the holes don't end up right you may be able to make them bigger and countersink a washer.

I agree, I don't think there is enough plastic on the stock pucks to counter sink the screw.

If it all goes well and you have good plastic, you may find that your home made puck are a lot stronger than the one's you ordered. You just can't change the angle. I couldn't be happier with mine.


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