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 Post subject: Comprehensive guide to hard boot splitboarding?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:48 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:28 pm
Posts: 453
Location: Cottonwood, UT
Does one exist? I'm very interested in trying them out. The high cost of boots and the mods required have kinda scared me away but my Malamutes are starting to destroy my feet. I'm looking for a solution that will make the skinning portion more comfortable.

I know there have been a lot of mod threads on here for different boots but has anyone consolidated any of that information in a more concise guide?


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 Post subject: Re: Comprehensive guide to hard boot splitboarding?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 10:53 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 1:24 pm
Posts: 262
Location: Salzburg / Austria
About modding a TLT6, this first post is helpful: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=16393
Similar threads exist for other boots.

However I'm not aware of a comprehensive guide on bindings.


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 Post subject: Re: Comprehensive guide to hard boot splitboarding?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 11:54 am 
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Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2009 3:18 pm
Posts: 472
Location: New Castle, Colorado
I will follow-up with a more detailed response.

But for now I just want to point out the mods are not required. Search my post for Eliminator Tongue threads ($30 dollars) and Scarpa F1 thread. I ride my F1s stock with the Eliminator Tongue. Very comfortable! Just avoid the older Scarpa F1s (2007 and earlier) as the forward lean did not work.

SB Hard Booters: Some else needs to come out and try the Eliminator Tongue, as this truly works and post confirmation here.

My hard boot purchases (boots and bindings) are at a or below buying new pair of soft boot splitboard bindings and new soft boots would go for.

How you is this possible, you may ask?

I purchased boots on eBay or on close out (end of season). I just picked up a pair of F1 race boots (like new) for $120 dollars also a have scored (over the past couple years) several Burton Race Plate Bindings on ebay for around $120 dollars [look for the thread to modify Burton Race Plates onto Voile Track. Note this only works for certain size boots; as was unable to modify a pair to fit my wife's 25 mondo Scarpa F1 boots (paid $180.00 for her boots (like new). I need to find a old pair of Spark binders and mod the Burton race plate unto the Spark slider track. I wish I could obtain a slider track without the drilled-holes, so could easily install Race Plates on a slider track (carbon would be nice). I think TreePilot did this mod.

Paid $350 on Sierra Trading Post for another pair of Scarpa F1s.

Also look to spend about $ 40.00 dollars on themo-molding the boot liners.

Concerning modifying a TLT-5/6 boot, sure would like to see some make an after market for the forward lean slot cube thingy.

About the only Hard Boot purchases that I have paid full price for were a pair of Bomber Sidewinder Splitboard Bindings at $300 dollars. Which I like a lot, but they are awful heavy!

Also just upgraded to the Voile Canted pucks($55 dollars) (search for my Voile Canted pucks thread). Canted pucks really help with natural alignment for riding hard boots. Note I think Voile needs to offer a longer length screws for the new canted pucks, For me the supplied 12 mm screws do not work. [I need to get back to Voile and explain this.]

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Are Dynafit TLT 5/6 boots and the Phantom Splitboard Bindings the way to go. I am sure they are. I definitively would like to own a pair of Phantoms, but for now I am satisfied with what I have. FYI right now EBay some is selling a pair Phantom 1st Gens (size large).

Also Scarpa has a special deal on Scarpa Defender (Scarpa F3) for $350.00 US

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See http://www.scarpa.com/defender

Search on here for Scarpa F3 and pm the F3 owners. and ask what the like. Look for closeouts starting late February in local shops. Internet sales come spring.

So I hope I have shown that HB set up is not expensive as one thinks, just an internet myth, propagated by leather loving soft-booters :duel: That hacking up a new pair of boots is a personal preference (and probably a good one), but not required to start right off with, especially if you try the Eliminator tongue.

Like my mama said; "You got to shop around"

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Ride the Pow!
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Venture Storm R 163 (2010), Dynafit Binding/Sparks Adapter, Scarpa F1 Boots, Bomber Sidewinder Bindings * Prior 172 Fissile (2012) Dynafit Binding/Sparks Adapter


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 Post subject: Re: Comprehensive guide to hard boot splitboarding?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 12:00 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2009 3:18 pm
Posts: 472
Location: New Castle, Colorado
Try not to buckle down your new boots, just ride-em snug not tight.

See thread Intentionally loosening boots?[url]http://splitboard.com/talk/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=15020[/url]

Intentionally loosening boots?

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Ride the Pow!
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Venture Storm R 163 (2010), Dynafit Binding/Sparks Adapter, Scarpa F1 Boots, Bomber Sidewinder Bindings * Prior 172 Fissile (2012) Dynafit Binding/Sparks Adapter


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 Post subject: Re: Comprehensive guide to hard boot splitboarding?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 12:35 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2011 4:27 pm
Posts: 598
Location: Rainier Beach
If you're in the Wasatch, I bet you can make friends with a hard booter locally who would let you try out their set up for a run or two. Or there are probably shops where you can demo or rent gear, prior to purchasing your own.

I will say that my nice hb setup (TLT5/Phantom) kicks ass over the shitty $100 setup I tried out to start with. Very pleased with that setup for spring and summer alpine climbing and riding. But I generally don't buckle up the plastic until April. I still love my soft boots for midwinter pow. Just my :twocents:


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 Post subject: Re: Comprehensive guide to hard boot splitboarding?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 3:34 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 1:24 pm
Posts: 262
Location: Salzburg / Austria
In what way does an eliminator tongue help here?


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 Post subject: Re: Comprehensive guide to hard boot splitboarding?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 10:45 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2009 3:18 pm
Posts: 472
Location: New Castle, Colorado
Thread Drift Eliminator Tongue:

I ride stock Scarpa F1's and the only "mod" I have done is to add an "Eliminator Custom Tongue" shim which has solved some boot fitting issues for me and also has soften forward-lean for me. see http://www.masterfitenterprises.com/eliminator.html

The tongue is a memory foam insert placed behind the boot liner tongue. The tongue allows for me to obtain more forward lean and a progressive ride dampness on the front side turns (softens forward lean). The boot is not tighten down but ridden just snug almost loose for a surfy feel. Of course, I have the option to tighten down the boot as snow conditions, terrain for riding and split-ski touring dictate. I also gain a little later flex, because the top strap is just snugged just enough. Note I do not have heel lift either.

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Ride the Pow!
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Venture Storm R 163 (2010), Dynafit Binding/Sparks Adapter, Scarpa F1 Boots, Bomber Sidewinder Bindings * Prior 172 Fissile (2012) Dynafit Binding/Sparks Adapter


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 Post subject: Re: Comprehensive guide to hard boot splitboarding?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 11:21 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2009 3:18 pm
Posts: 472
Location: New Castle, Colorado
Another tip for new Hard Booters. Accept that your stance may change, both in angles and stance width. Now I know this is really a personal preference, and for some one's stance need not change. What I am trying to say that riding a stiffer boot and binding (soft or hard setup) that IMO you want a natural stance that aligns with your skeleton properly. As you can't get away with trying to force an unnatural stance position riding in hard boots.

Just be willing to try different stances until you find your sweet-spot (stance).

Then add to your comfort by trying cants under the bindings, toe and heel lift, as needed.

Note on binding tension... This difficult to describe in writing. but you want the toe bail lever to be tight enough so that the boot cannot rotate in the binding. Nor do you want it overly tight so that you can break the plastic toe-bail. Nor loose, not an option! So there is a sweet spot. This one reason why I do not recommend the Voile Mountain Plate. I never could get the tension right on the Voile Mountain Plate.

Jefe:
Quote:
I will say that my nice hb setup (TLT5/Phantom) kicks ass over the shitty $100 setup I tried out to start with
Jefe, I agree with what your are saying. But I just want to point out the sticker shock need not apply for a new hard-booter. One can find over time the requisite hard boot items (on sale) and eventually upgrade to Hard Boot nirvana (TLT5/Phantom)!

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Ride the Pow!
----
Venture Storm R 163 (2010), Dynafit Binding/Sparks Adapter, Scarpa F1 Boots, Bomber Sidewinder Bindings * Prior 172 Fissile (2012) Dynafit Binding/Sparks Adapter


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 Post subject: Re: Comprehensive guide to hard boot splitboarding?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 4:52 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 1:24 pm
Posts: 262
Location: Salzburg / Austria
Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: Comprehensive guide to hard boot splitboarding?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 3:30 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2005 11:28 am
Posts: 108
Location: Portland, OR
If you're no hardbootin' baller like Jefe, there are cheaper options.

I'm riding Scarpa Matrixs with Intuition thermo liners that I scored on Ebay for under $200 shipped.

Add some $55 Voile Mtn. Plates and you're good to go.

I haven't modded my old Burton race plates as I like to think I'll someday use them and my alpine board setup to achieve extremecarving bliss.

I did tour a couple times with the full race plate attached to the slider track, but that's a bit overkill.


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 Post subject: Re: Comprehensive guide to hard boot splitboarding?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 5:00 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2011 4:27 pm
Posts: 598
Location: Rainier Beach
I think the moral of this story ^^^^ is that Scarpas get you more ladies than Dynafits. :doobie:


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 Post subject: Re: Comprehensive guide to hard boot splitboarding?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 5:12 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 6:51 am
Posts: 691
Location: Surfing or Splitboarding Downunder
My :twocents:

Covers all aspects from boots, bindings, tour mode, crampons and pucks.

The boards

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Boots
Garmot Masterlites

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or
Scarpa Spirit3

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Bindings
FirstLight of course
Rev1

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Rev4

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Touring
Dynafit toes with Spark or FLS custom plates adaptors

Image

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FirstLight 5 deg cant slider plates

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Crampons
Old Burton modified to fit Dynafit

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Crampon tab

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Hope this gives you some info.
Not the most common setup, no TLT's or Phantoms, but this stuff wasn't around when I started out.
I started out with Scarpa boots with voile plate bindings and loved the feel of the setup.

Image

I made sure I got tech inserts in the boot so as I could upgrade to Dynafit touring.
I then went to Bomber plates, which were too heavy so went back to Voile plates.
I then started to make my own gear, and moved to the Garmont boots.

Any questions let me know

Cheers

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Adam West
Board Designer
FirstLight
+61 (0)413 888 115
http://www.firstlightsnowboards.com.au http://www.splitfest.com.au http://www.splitfests.com http://www.mrbc.com http://www.backcountryglobal.com
Sydney - Nowra - Jindabyne


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 Post subject: Re: Comprehensive guide to hard boot splitboarding?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 5:31 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2009 10:32 am
Posts: 557
Location: Rawesome, BC
FWIW, I recently switched to and have about 10 days on F1s (the model where the walk mode is integrated into the top cuff buckle) and Race Titaniums mounted on Voile plates, all sitting on a Trapper Old Goat 166. 5'10", 160lbs without gear.

Took the powerstraps off and mucked about with the forward lean then went shredding. And that's about it...

Skin up with only the forefoot buckle tight (don't dig heel slop), kick it into ski mode at the top, step in and rally down. Running the same angles, a little bit less forward lean on the front foot, a few degrees of cant on the bindings and a few more from the shred soles footbeds (running my Intuition liners & footbeds from my Malamutes). I can't feel enough of a difference from surfing around in my Malamutes and Burners in ride mode to bitch about anything or do any permanent mods.

Skinning up however is a world of change. Remember the switch from Voile plates & touring brackets to the Spark LT system? The change from Spark LT to Dynafits is even more significant. Zero slop in the boot/binding interface, lighter, smaller, more streamlined in the uptrack & no fucking snow building up between the boots and bindings!

Maybe the trick is to buy shitty ski boots, snowboard more and overthink things less?


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