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 Post subject: Outward Canting
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 9:32 pm 
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Posts: 204
I am experimenting with my hard boots and MTN plates and seem to be able to maintain my soft boot stance which is just under 23" on my split. I am not tall, long-legged, or bow-legged, I guess I just use a somewhat wider stance, compared to most people on this forum who are my size.

I am curious about canting as most people here seem to do it inward. Is it because they ride old-skool tuck-knee setups? (I still do tuck-knee on a snowskate.) For my 'progressive' / g-style stance, I have to squat and move knees out. There's no way to do a tuck-knee with this setup. It definitely feels natural to have boots / bindings canted outward. The pressure goes to the outside of the foot, which I think is good for board control.

Btw, I saw a pic of the Vitruvian man trying to explain the inward canting in an old thread and I think this is not appropriate for my case - as I am not standing on my board with straight legs / knees, and the board is not bent in such an arc...

Wondering if there are others here with outward canting, especially ones with relatively wide stances. In the same line of thought - if you want a wider stance but couldn't make it work, consider experimenting with some duck-ing and outward cant.

Cheers
Ivo


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 Post subject: Re: Outward Canting
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:52 pm 
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I don't think your ligaments would thank you very much on an outward cant. It shouldn't matter much what your angle are, you'll alway wan them canted inward. The wider your stance is the wider you'll want them. Think of it this way, you want your pucks canted so that from your hip joint you could still lock into your stance if you didn't have knees. For your knees to work the way they're supposed to your knee, hip and ankle should make a straight line.
It could be that for a full duck stance you'd want a compound angle.?

Just my :twocents: and I've never hard-booted so this is all theoretical

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 Post subject: Re: Outward Canting
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 1:39 am 
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Location: Surfing or Splitboarding Downunder
lernr
Def inward cant and I run 5 deg on the the rear foot with the binding @ +7
Front foot has 2.5 cant and +27

That's for hardboots

Cheers

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 Post subject: Re: Outward Canting
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 2:37 am 
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Yep, inward cant.
If you feel like your knees are being forced together look at adding lift - lift the toe of your front foot and heel of your back foot.
Like Firstlight I'm speaking from hardboot experience, and know what you mean about how uncomfortable that locked in knee stance is..everyone is different so have a tinker!

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 Post subject: Re: Outward Canting
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 1:07 pm 
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OK, I'm adding a pic to illustrate - inward canting in this position would seem very uncomfortable, like I'm trying not to pee my pants, and would probably hurt my knees

Anyway, I am just thinking about it and experimenting on the floor, definitely need to go out and ride to test. Luckily, my hard boots have canting adjustment so I should be able to change on the fly

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 Post subject: Re: Outward Canting
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 2:52 pm 
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Thousands od GS racers the world over can't be wrong! The idea of inward canting is to actually provide a better allignment of your hip/knee/ankle joints resulting in less pressure and joint pain, and also increased stabilty and responsiveness. Even freestyle riders will often ride with inward canting as it can help with pop as it centers your weight over the center of the board.

In theory, and on flat ground it does seem a little counter intuitve, and can feel 'knock-kneed' - but remember that you are very very rarely riding your board on your lounge room floor! Heel and toe lift as mentioned in my post above can help give you more comfort too, as this is the natural positionin of your feet coming into a carve anyway - so its taking out some of the hard work!

Check out this article - http://www.alpinecarving.com/binding_setup.html

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 Post subject: Re: Outward Canting
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 3:33 pm 
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Yes - I did check this article, and it also mentions outward canting - esp. for the front, but potentially for the back too.

You are right that I don't ride on my floor, and I am going to experiment on the slopes, of course. Will report back when I have some time on the different positions. I may end up narrowing the stance and using inward canting.

But the GS guys have a totally different setup, and I don't think anyone on the circuit runs my stance width of 23" with 31" inseam, or my angles :)

Cheers
Ivo


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 Post subject: Re: Outward Canting
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 3:49 pm 
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best of luck with the experimenting! Let us know how you get on :)

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 Post subject: Re: Outward Canting
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 4:05 pm 
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If you really amped on bending your knees like that, it seems duck stance (positive binding angle fore, negative angle aft) and a flexible binding would get you more milage than outward canting.


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 Post subject: Re: Outward Canting
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:43 pm 
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Location: Eugene and Coos Bay, Oregon.
In the true, alpine carving, hardboot world there are a small number of riders who use a very small amount of outward cant. The angles are 50* plus though, so the effect on the leg joints is much different than at the much lower angles that splitboarders typically ride. Currently, many alpine carvers ride with some combination of heel and toe lift but no cant, either inward or outward. Others uses some amount of inward cant.

On the splitboard, at our lower angles, many AT boot riders choose to use inward cant because it brings our knees into better alignment and allows us to ride a wider, more stable, stance.

It would seem that at your wide stance, inward cant would be beneficial to your joints. That said, from watching the alpine carving world and all the lift / cant preferences, do what feels correct for your joints and your riding.


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 Post subject: Re: Outward Canting
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:30 pm 
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Location: New Castle, Colorado
Quote:
n the splitboard, at our lower angles, many AT boot riders choose to use inward cant because it brings our knees into better alignment and allows us to ride a wider, more stable, stance.

It would seem that at your wide stance, inward cant would be beneficial to your joints. That said, from watching the alpine carving world and all the lift / cant preferences, do what feels correct for your joints and your riding.


I come from an Alpine Carving and transition into splitboarding. I agree with what Buell and what others are saying in this post. A splitboard stance is very different from an alpine carving stance (IMHO). The stance is much more natural than what I used for alpine carving. A carving setup gives the appearance of riding "knock-knee" (which it really is not, but that topic is for another thread).

Whether one rides duck or forward stance. The key is to allow for proper body align.
.

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 Post subject: Re: Outward Canting
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 11:39 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2010 10:13 pm
Posts: 204
I see.

Here is what I was riding before with Sparks bindings and boots on a NS 161. Now will see how this feels on the snow with hard boots and experiment with cant and lift. I may decide to also change both the width and the angles. I don't *have* to ride such a stance, and have also used different angles and widths - but it seems that if I want to use Dynafit heels, then I need to stay wide, and get new holes for the toe pieces closer to the front binding.

Thanks for all the feedback! I will be testing (hopefully soon) and will be update thread with results

Cheers
Ivo

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