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 Post subject: Amplid LAB - We want to hear your Splitboard ideas!
PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 4:17 am 
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The LAB is Amplid's experimental division, I guess a Skunkworks of sorts. Here we focus on experimental shapes, materials and construction. http://www.amplid.com/lab

Like most brands, at this point in the year Amplid's 14/15 line is pretty much dialled with most R&D for it having happened over the last 12 months. R&D for LAB products now shifts into gear. What better to kick off the initial concepting than asking die-hard splitters on this forum for input and suggestions?

What do you want to see happen to splitboard design in 2014? The crazier the better!

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 Post subject: Re: Amplid LAB - We want to hear your Splitboard ideas!
PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:15 am 
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Location: Whistler, Coast Mtns
Partial Carbon nanotube construction, titanium inlays?

Lightweight p-tex or superhydrophobic topsheet

Big radius, short effective edge, mildly tapered board. Similar to what Daniel Furberg has done.
http://www.furbergsnowboards.net/www/?page_id=34
Or take inspiration from older pow boards...
http://www.snowboardmuseum.de/board/show/id/249

On boards with traditional sidecuts introduce a mild base convexity at the widest point of the nose. Not wedged like the DPS Spoonhttps://www.dpsskis.com/ski/spoon but mildly rounded. Just think of an extreme base bevel but elliptical.

A removable nose extender.
A shorter than usual board with the option of a carrying a 8-15cm nose cap that will clip on and can give the board more float.

Optional/custom insert pattern, that could fit Dynafit( or other)toe piece's.

Integrated dual climbing wires embedded in splitboards.

Boards sold with FirstLight split pin for increased torsional rigidity in ride mode.

Highest quality race bases with splitboard specific base structure.



I'm sure I can think of some more

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 Post subject: Re: Amplid LAB - We want to hear your Splitboard ideas!
PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 12:22 pm 
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Hey Whistlermaverick, thanks for kicking off the ideas.

Couple of things off the bat:

Titinal inlays and P-Tex on the topsheet... these are some pretty heavy materials. At what weight is a board considered light, average and then heavy in your opinion?

Not completely convinced my the long sidecut idea. On harder snow conditions in less than steep terrain, anything below 10m starts to get unresponsive and disadvantageous in my experience. Plus the harder it is to taper a board without setting ths stance back a mile... which starts to effect binding positions for touring. What do you think is optimum for sidecut radius and stance setback?

Like the raised contact points idea and the removable nose extension is definitely out of the conventional.

Keep them coming!

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 Post subject: Re: Amplid LAB - We want to hear your Splitboard ideas!
PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 12:41 pm 
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A splitboard version of this ski -- twice as wide, just as long -- would take things a step or two beyond Furburg, which, in my opinion, though size limited, is nonetheless on the cutting edge of off-piste board design.

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Amplid LAB - We want to hear your Splitboard ideas!
PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 12:57 pm 
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Location: Salida, Flagstaff
[quote=Not completely convinced my the long sidecut idea. On harder snow conditions in less than steep terrain, anything below 10m starts to get unresponsive and disadvantageous in my experience.[/quote]

Remember that, in splitboarding, we rarely ride and almost never target hard and less-than-steep snow. We instead target pow and/or steeps, and would benefit from boards designed for those conditions (which resort boards fundamentally are not).

Many are hungry for a DPS-like long radius, long-taper nose and tail design precisely because such a design would excel in the conditions we target.

The snowboard industry needs to break out of its resort snow design rut and make boards, as DPS has done with skis, designed primarily for those off-piste conditions. There is tremendous room for progress beyond that already made.

Glad you guys are on here asking questions. Props for that.

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 Post subject: Re: Amplid LAB - We want to hear your Splitboard ideas!
PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 7:41 pm 
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Location: SLC, Wasatch front.
On a different note from the other suggestions,

I would propose a rocker/flat/rocker twin shaped powder board with tapered tip and tail.


Like a mix of the K2 Ultra-split
http://k2snowboarding.com/snowboards/ultrasplit-kit

and an Arbor Abacus split
http://www.arborcollective.com/snow/boa ... splitboard

I am looking for something that is very nimble and floaty, But as a twin with flat camber in the middle for stability and superior edge-hold. Lengths would run from 157-167 :thatrocks: :thatrocks: :thatrocks:

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 Post subject: Re: Amplid LAB - We want to hear your Splitboard ideas!
PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:37 pm 
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Amplid wrote:
Not completely convinced my the long sidecut idea. On harder snow conditions in less than steep terrain, anything below 10m starts to get unresponsive and disadvantageous in my experience. Plus the harder it is to taper a board without setting ths stance back a mile... which starts to effect binding positions for touring. What do you think is optimum for sidecut radius and stance setback?


Anything less than 9m on a directional, all mountain splitboard is gay (by less I mean 8m, 7m, etc..). Not sure when you say "below 10m gets unresponsive" if your'e talking about above or below 10m??? :scratch:

Big mountain, backcountry splitboard evolution is inevitably going to longer sidecuts (10m+) If you don't understand this as a board manufacturer you need to get out and ride more boards in big terrain and talk to more backcoutnry riders. Most of us want boards with over 10m in sidecut. I won't buy a board with less than 9m cuz they suck on steeps and you don't need sidecut in powder! Personally I think furberg over did it. I'd like to see more 11-13m sidecuts with a little taper and raised/mellowed contact points like on the dps/furberg nose/tails.

Oh and any added weight of a topsheet that actually prevents ice/snow sticking is TOTALLY WORTH IT. That's the biggest downfall of touring in powder. So what if you have a 6 lb carbon splitboard when you get to the bottom of your run and have 6 lbs of gloppy snow stuck to it!!!

To be bluntly honest, your company isn't going to stand out in this industry unless you start adjusting and providing an all mountain model with some serious progression. It looks like you have a decent twin tip and a powder board. Now give us something for all around steeps/big mtn riding.


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 Post subject: Re: Amplid LAB - We want to hear your Splitboard ideas!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:34 am 
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Yep slip-up of the above/below there.

We've got plenty of big terrain in the Alps and Amplid is owned by fairly pioneering big-mountain rider, but I take your point, the forum community at Splitboard.com is definitely keen on the longer sidecut, I can see that from the many posts and the great response to Furberg's concept. To date we've been concentrating on more accessible designs that work in all types of snow conditions and terrain. No matter which way you look at it, boards with very long sidecut radii are niche... but I'm not saying they don't work and that there isn't demand, I'm just offering an explanation.

It's a shame I can't upload images on this forum because I'd put together an idea... but I can show you what it's based on. We build a 5D ski called the Rockwell, we introduced the shape about 5 years ago. There's a lot of reverse sidecut in the nose and the tail with a pretty short effective edge. The ski has 1cm of taper and a 13m sidecut radius. Would basing a board on these dimensions be what you're talking about? http://www.amplid.com/skis/rockwell

How would you see the camber profile working? Skis with longer sidecut radii have the weight of the skier flexing the ski at the midpoint which enables the ski to flex into tighter turning circles, but on a snowboard the weight of the rider is 25-35cm fore and aft of the board centre which makes the centre of the board a bit of a dead spot. Would you thin the core a little between the feet, reverse camber the profile a touch or a slid turns in tight situations all good for this kind of board?

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 Post subject: Re: Amplid LAB - We want to hear your Splitboard ideas!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:42 am 
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wasatchfreeride84093 wrote:
On a different note from the other suggestions,

I would propose a rocker/flat/rocker twin shaped powder board with tapered tip and tail.


Like a mix of the K2 Ultra-split
http://k2snowboarding.com/snowboards/ultrasplit-kit

and an Arbor Abacus split
http://www.arborcollective.com/snow/boa ... splitboard

I am looking for something that is very nimble and floaty, But as a twin with flat camber in the middle for stability and superior edge-hold. Lengths would run from 157-167 :thatrocks: :thatrocks: :thatrocks:


We've got something like this in next winter's line around the mid 150s mark with some extra width for added floatation... I can't reveal any more than that. I don't think we'll be creating it in a split in the first season, but we'll see what the response is like and maybe create a late release split. I think you'll be stoked on it!

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 Post subject: Re: Amplid LAB - We want to hear your Splitboard ideas!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 6:36 am 
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+1 for a snow shedding lightweight topsheet. A light topsheet is much better at resisting iced up snow sticking to it. I've tried all chemicals known to mankind, but no luck so far.

How a about a really thin layer of ptex? Would that work?

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 Post subject: Re: Amplid LAB - We want to hear your Splitboard ideas!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:31 pm 
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Thanks for asking and putting yourselves out there, definitely commendable.

My biggest want is more of an aesthetics suggestion than an engineering or tech suggestion, but I'd like to see directional shapes have an obvious directional appearance with a style/steez factor equal to the underlying engineering and utility. I realize the ignorance of what I'm about to say, but if it looks like a twin, its probably a twin.

It would be nice to see some bigger boards with larger radius, reverse radius, etc., as others have suggested.

:soapbox:
This criticism is for the industry, not directed at Amplid, but enough with the float of a 180 crammed into a 150 claims. Anyone making these ridiculous claims should show the increased overall surface area in contact with the snow. If the surface area is similar to the larger board its easier to entertain the 'possibility', otherwise it's just marketing BS. While those of us that rock big boards are a very small market share, we are not buying these claims - we're looking for boards that plane out on top of the snow, and go really fast! Riding nose up and loosing power in the flats is not float - it's riding a wheelie.

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 Post subject: Re: Amplid LAB - We want to hear your Splitboard ideas!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:15 pm 
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Snurfer wrote:
Thanks for asking and putting yourselves out there, definitely commendable.

My biggest want is more of an aesthetics suggestion than an engineering or tech suggestion, but I'd like to see directional shapes have an obvious directional appearance with a style/steez factor equal to the underlying engineering and utility. I realize the ignorance of what I'm about to say, but if it looks like a twin, its probably a twin.

It would be nice to see some bigger boards with larger radius, reverse radius, etc., as others have suggested.

:soapbox:
This criticism is for the industry, not directed at Amplid, but enough with the float of a 180 crammed into a 150 claims. Anyone making these ridiculous claims should show the increased overall surface area in contact with the snow. If the surface area is similar to the larger board its easier to entertain the 'possibility', otherwise it's just marketing BS. While those of us that rock big boards are a very small market share, we are not buying these claims - we're looking for boards that plane out on top of the snow, and go really fast! Riding nose up and loosing power in the flats is not float - it's riding a wheelie.


Hey Snurfer thanks for the feedback. To a certain extent, a commercially viable board is one that gives the most testers a smile after a day riding. So sometimes the more drastic and niche concepts have to remain ideas and prototypes, because selling 30 boards a year won't even cover the mould and prototyping costs. That said, Amplid is a smaller brand and we like to take a risk so it's good to hear that there's a hunger in the market for pushing the envelope!

I don't want to sound defensive here but the Morning Split claim of cramming the active surface area of a 175 into a 163 is based purely on surface area. We have a really good illsutration somewhere that explains the concept, I'll try and dig it out... actually I'm not sure why it's not on the website. With the stance being only 5mm setback off the sidecut and the camber in the tail of the board you ride with your weight very balanced on this board even in super deep powder, so it planes on snow very naturally. No snow wheelies here... unless you want to of course.

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 Post subject: Re: Amplid LAB - We want to hear your Splitboard ideas!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 5:17 pm 
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Location: Surfing or Splitboarding Downunder
Amplid
Perhaps a shape shack style option for wanabe board shapers is the go?

We manufacture surfboards and we offer "shape your own" options for those that want to!
Slightly higher cost but it gives the rider a placebo effect and they think they have shaped the perfect board.
All boards are designed on computer with a simple surf design CAD package, like boardcrafter or snocad and cut on a CNC shaping machine.
You could offer this service too perhaps?
If you had a fully adjustable press that allows any rocker profile you could start to invite shapers from around the world to your factory and get these ideas from virtual concepts to reality!

I'm sure you would get a lot of R&D options from this sort of operation!

:twocents:

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