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 Post subject: Re: Karakoram VS Spark
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 5:04 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 3:34 pm
Posts: 165
Location: Boulder, CO
A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush (especially when the bird in hand is on sale and has a solid track record), so I bought a pair of Spark Blaze's today. I weighed the Sparks against my old Voile plate w/Ride EX bindings, and am frigging stoked to find that I just took two pounds off my splitboard- Sweet! If the hype pans out, I'll give the Karakorams a go when it's time for a new board.


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 Post subject: Re: Karakoram VS Spark
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 5:17 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 1:03 pm
Posts: 344
Location: Stockton, CA
On sale, where? At this point go with who can get them to you the soonest!


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 Post subject: Re: Karakoram VS Spark
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 8:32 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 3:34 pm
Posts: 165
Location: Boulder, CO
Boulder Ski Deals (Boulder, CO), and it was more like a slight discount than a sale. I've bought a lot of boards, bindings, and random gear from them over the last decade. Their snowboard dept staff are rippers, very helpful and knowledgable.


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 Post subject: Re: Karakoram VS Spark
PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:52 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:56 am
Posts: 2
Hello all,

My question is there a big difference beetween voile and karakoram in terms of riding mode and keeping board under the bindings tight?

I live and ride in europe so we often ride hardpack conditions and there is one thing i don't like in voile system. It is play of the board under the bindings. I thinking of getting new binding soon and started to think about karakoram. I use Jones Solution C with karakoram clips which I like very much and spark lT. I like simplicity of sparks and don't have any comments to touring performance which is in my opinion perfect but don't like the play of the board under bindings. I hike to ride so a would be making my decission based on riding performance. I read many posts and still didn't find clear answer. Thanks for replys.


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 Post subject: Re: Karakoram VS Spark
PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:44 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 10:05 am
Posts: 1523
Location: Colorado
Honestly, you might consider a hard boot system with Phantom Bindings ultimately, this will be more responsive than any soft boot set up.
As for K vs S, I do see some ride mode advantages with the K system: The binding has a closer interface with the board surface, and uses metal parts (rather than the plastic Voile pucks). So the connection from boot to board with K is more direct and responsive-no matter what one does, the Voile pucks do flex quite a bit, and this allows for a less responsive system-how big is this difference, well only you can decide that. Weight wise, Sparks with the LT bracket are lighter than Karakoram, but it is a relatively close thing if you compare Karakoram SL to Spark.

I was surprised how much more responsive my system was when I went from using the Voile pucks to the Phantom bindings, and the difference between K and S would be similar.

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Never Summer Prospector 167X, furberg 173 DIY, Dynafit TLT5/6 Mountain , Phantom Bindings, BD Glidelite Skins
Quiver Killer inserts

http://protectourwinters.org/
http://14ersnowboardproject.homestead.com/


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 Post subject: Re: Karakoram VS Spark
PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:49 am 
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Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:48 pm
Posts: 673
Location: Kodiak, AK
I'm sorry, but the Voile puck to Phantom analogy does not apply here.

I've owned both Sparks and Karakoram. The Krams flex more in ride mode, no question. The plates the bindings mount on are wafer thin and the screws that hold them to the deck are right in the center of the plates while the binding attachment points are far on the outside edge of the plates. That long, unsupported distance of thin metal flexes a lot. I could get the edge of the Kram Split30 binding to lift off the board many millimeters. My Spark Burners are rock solid by comparison.

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Jones Solution 163W
Venture Zephyr 164/260
Never Summer SL 163X
Burton Spliff 148
Voile Mojo RX 166
BD, G3, and Gecko skins
Sparks!


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 Post subject: Re: Karakoram VS Spark
PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:18 am 
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Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 8:05 am
Posts: 1512
Location: 395
That you can get the K metal plates and V pucks to flex off the board fore/aft is actually a GOOD thing. Google NOW bindings. Same concept. The flex actually makes K's more responsive imo. They were designed to flex to allow preloading. Don't be confused though, because my Superlights are tighter, more solid feeling than any binding I've strapped in to. It's the side to side slop you don't want and Spks have more of that than K's.


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 Post subject: Re: Karakoram VS Spark
PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:24 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:48 pm
Posts: 673
Location: Kodiak, AK
Side to side flex is bad, and the Karakorams have none of it. Really? Here is what mine did with mild pressure:

Image

Now imagine strapping in and really torquing on that sucker.

_________________
Jones Solution 163W
Venture Zephyr 164/260
Never Summer SL 163X
Burton Spliff 148
Voile Mojo RX 166
BD, G3, and Gecko skins
Sparks!


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 Post subject: Re: Karakoram VS Spark
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:15 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 3:53 pm
Posts: 68
Location: Bozeman MT/ Woodinville Wa
voile is redesigning their pucks, and burton is making their own next year.

stiff pucks for 13/14

I use some diy puck with an extra ski screw, very little flex. we made them a little over sized and filled down for a snug fit with the sparks. TAUT

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 Post subject: Re: Karakoram VS Spark
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:59 am 
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Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2004 1:08 pm
Posts: 378
Location: near munich
the picturs are havy... but the danger is the hot point in the flex zone.... this is a killer
first leasson : all thing must rounded and no corner the can cut on the deck



bURTON

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life`s too short not to be


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 Post subject: Re: Karakoram VS Spark
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:00 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:56 am
Posts: 2
Thank you for your replys. I didn't expect this kind of discussion but i'm happy with it.P

I think that flex of bindings vs board schould be split in two aspects. One is binding play side to side (tip to tail) second is forward backward (frontside backside) play.
In my opinion first one is not bad at all and can be reached by flexing baseplate or v shape of the base. 2-3 years ago companies became crazy about that and now we have reflex, est from burton and for example v-rod in rome bindings.

My question was related to second option which in my opinion in splitboards is biggest problem. Board cut in two and leverage made by binding causes board halves play vs each other during every turn (maybe except powder riding). I noticed that karakoram use two metal plates that overlap each other above inside edge and are additionaly locked by pin of the binding and that is what made me ask you about opinion regarding Karakoram.

I think that companies now focused on changeover and try to save seconds there but change from tour mode to ride is nothing in comparison to time we hike :). Another comment I heard is elimination of the pin benefits which I don't understand. Pin is simple and you always can have spare one in backpack, that is why voile system is with us till now.

I like Karakoram, phantom system or spark edison. For sure I will think about switching to hardboots. Do you know if spark is planning to implement edison system in near furure?


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 Post subject: Re: Karakoram VS Spark
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:05 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2004 1:08 pm
Posts: 378
Location: near munich
the depper quastion is: what needs the perfect system

a: self cleaning at mounted from walk to ride ( slider like voile) b. overlapped pucks ( like KK. Phantom) . c: no loosing parts.
kk is a tecnical and good looking systen, i like the simpel funktion from the voile slider pucks.
low wight an small volumen crampons. an a price likes a one pice binding.


bURTON

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life`s too short not to be


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 Post subject: Re: Karakoram VS Spark
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:24 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 10:05 am
Posts: 1523
Location: Colorado
Well, we are morphing into a bigger discussion, I think it is a good thing. A discussion of what we really need in a binding/interface system.
In my experience, if fast transitions are the priority, then it is impossible to beat the Voile puck system-it is almost entirely self cleaning, and even icy conditions have very little effect on it.
The Karakoram system does have ride mode advantages, the aforementioned fact that one side of the binding plate overlaps the board halves is an advantage, the fact that one is not relying on plastic pucks (which have been known to break occasionally, I have had this happen) is an advantage.
The Phantom Splitboard Bindings use interface plates which overlap the board halves on both sides, further (over Karakoram) increasing the amount of support provided to the board halves.

The drawbacks of both Karakoram, and Phantom (besides expense) are that the systems are both subject to a little more difficulty when transitioning in icy conditions: the parts of the interface plates which overlap the board halves sometimes ice up, and need to be cleared. When one is practiced using these bindings clearing the ice (which is only needed in certain conditions) only takes a few additional seconds.

Some people have taken to adding an additional board hook (or clip in the case of Karakoram) in between the feet to reduce the amount of offset between board halves during aggressive turning-I would suggest that offset between the feet is less offensive than offset closer to the tip and tail (where it could cause the tip or tail to grab unpredictably during smeared/slarved turns) and prefer to keep my board simple and light, but the wider a stance one rides, the more one might consider a clip, board hooks, or other method to address offset in the middle of the board. I have considered experimenting with small AL plates here, but have never gotten around to it, as I do not really perceive a ride "problem" in the rear world.

_________________
Never Summer Prospector 167X, furberg 173 DIY, Dynafit TLT5/6 Mountain , Phantom Bindings, BD Glidelite Skins
Quiver Killer inserts

http://protectourwinters.org/
http://14ersnowboardproject.homestead.com/


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