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 Post subject: Re: 2013-2014 new gear
PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:31 pm 
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Posts: 636
ShredLife wrote:
k2 should have channeled board next year too...


i'm a huge Arc'Teryx fanboy - but without seeing it in person that backpack looks fucking ridiculous. and dangerous. why fix what ain't broke? why on earth would you want to rely on batteries and electric motors in sub zero temps to trigger an airbag?

to whoever is going to throw in "your beacon runs on batteries", its not the same at all - your beacon lays right next to your body, inside your jacket - getting the advantage of body heat.



I don't know man, I think a little bit of R&D might have been done to address these issues. I have a camera that functions pretty well down to sub zero temps. I wouldn't rip it apart until some people see/use/test it and report issues. And the issue of passing it through airport security is a non issue. Electrical equipment like this passes through all day every day. It's pressurized canisters that are sketchy


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 Post subject: Re: 2013-2014 new gear
PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:44 pm 
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i'm all for competition, innovation, and options within the market, and i DO have every confidence in Arc' as pretty much the or one of the most bomber equipment manufacturers out there - so i don't want to come off as a 'hater'...

i just think that simpler is better.

i was probably a bit harsh in my other post there, and i will reserve judgement until i see it in person and see the specs on weight, etc.

the one thing i will say tho is that it better be saving some real weight given the typical heft of Arc' packs :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: 2013-2014 new gear
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:15 am 
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Location: London/Berlin
My big concerns with the Arc are the pump failure - too much moving parts and air flow. I remain sceptical until I see it in action.
And here in Europe you can fly pretty much any airbag system with every airlane. I thing that there was a TSA approved cannister for the States?
Pretty much the only problem with current solutions are that the cannisters are not multi usable without refilling in a shop...

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 Post subject: Re: 2013-2014 new gear
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:57 am 
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moridinbg wrote:
My big concerns with the Arc are the pump failure - too much moving parts and air flow. I remain sceptical until I see it in action.
And here in Europe you can fly pretty much any airbag system with every airlane. I thing that there was a TSA approved cannister for the States?
Pretty much the only problem with current solutions are that the cannisters are not multi usable without refilling in a shop...


Really, why? You do realize that things we totally rely on for safety use electronic systems like this (such as brake systems in our cars). If you are worried about electronic systems failing, I would recommend that you never fly, or drive a contemporary car. The only moving part is the motor shaft and fan impeller itself: what exactly do you see as a possible failure mode?
There are also other problems with compressed gas airbag systems, they are heavy and take up a lot of space in the pack. The Arcteryx system has the potential to save a couple of pounds, and take up less space in the pack.

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 Post subject: Re: 2013-2014 new gear
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:06 am 
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Read about this on Wildsnow a while back. Good debates going on in the comments.
http://www.wildsnow.com/9006/electric-avalanche-airbag-arcteryx-patent/

My thought is reducing weight by a few pounds could be awesome if it works. But I'm concerned how much air and how fast they can fill 100L of air in that one little fan. In 2-3 seconds, that's pretty fast on one fan.


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 Post subject: Re: 2013-2014 new gear
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:18 am 
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Jason: The key to this system is the LiFePO4 battery. Unlike the batteries before this formulation, a battery could not do the job unless it was huge, because batteries were limited in how much current they could deliver. LiFePO4 have no such limitation, so a relatively small battery can dump all its energy very quickly. My understanding is that they are currently getting inflation times around 5 seconds. This seems favorably comparable to the inflation times of the airbag packs I have witnessed in test inflations (ABS and BCA).
I would guess the impeller uses a venturi system (as do some airbag packs) so that the fan does not have to do all the work. I have seen some small ducted fans like this used for model airplanes, and they can move a surprising amount of air. But either way, early protos seem to have inflation times equal to that of current compressed gas systems. I suspect that Arcteryx is still a ways from production, so until then, we will not know for sure. Of course, this pack will be much easier to test, as one does not have to go get a cylinder re-charged/re-placed with every deployment, every shop will be able to demonstrate inflation times.

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 Post subject: Re: 2013-2014 new gear
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:09 am 
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Good to know. Either way its pretty cool to see outside the box thinking. Will be cool to see when they put it into production at $10,000 a pop :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: 2013-2014 new gear
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:50 am 
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Yeah, I expect pricing will be at least competitive with current airbag offerings, that is to say, really expensive! Right now it appears that an airbag adds $500 to $900 to the price of a pack. The parts cost for the Arcteryx system will be quite a bit lower than that of the compressed gas systems (electronics are relatively cheap). But, the R & D expense which needs to be accounted for may be quite a bit higher...
I would not expect the Arcteryx system to be any more affordable than current systems, but if it is a couple of pounds lighter, and features a really good pack design (I prefer Arcteryx packs myself, and have not found a single current airbag pack I could live with) they will have a winner as far as I am concerned.

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 Post subject: Re: 2013-2014 new gear
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:14 pm 
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Geesh OR show just wrapped up and this is all we have to look forward to? Not that this stuff isnt really cool, but I figured we see way more photos/reports on new stuff that I can't afford to buy :)

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 Post subject: Re: 2013-2014 new gear
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:42 pm 
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RE Arc'Teryx. I didnt read the wildsnow comments but I wonder about airflow going into the balloon with all the entrained snow of a potentially powerful avalanche? Weight savings and easy transport would be hudge. Hopefully they dont forget us snowboarders when they produce the pack. Ie: both a-frame and diagonal carry for 13+cm waist, and good vertical snowboard carry.

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 Post subject: Re: 2013-2014 new gear
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:56 pm 
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No new boots??? (besides the overpriced, gucci version of the Spark boot)
I would think there would be something new out there in terms of splitbootaneering....disappointing.


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 Post subject: Re: 2013-2014 new gear
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 4:14 pm 
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I assume more swag reports are coming, but I have to agree that so far it's been total weaksauce.

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 Post subject: Re: 2013-2014 new gear
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:10 pm 
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BGnight wrote:
No new boots??? (besides the overpriced, gucci version of the Spark boot)
I would think there would be something new out there in terms of splitbootaneering....disappointing.


i wore my Nike zf1 liners inside my Spark boots today and it was too legit to quit :doobie:

- so there's that! :shock: .... :?


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